Thinker

20. Which avatar do photos of dwarves, a strict anti-bolting ethic, and drunken posts from far away places typify? 21. Which avatar generated the highest ratio (weighted by the high number of posts) of profane drivel to climbing-related material in the history of this board? 22. What was Craghag and why was it an interesting tangent?

Like PeteA, there are a number of people who try both groups and both classes, and stay active in both clubs. In fact, if you don't have a mentor to teach you then that may be the best approach to learn all the necessary skills and meet potential climbing partners. Because the WAC is much smaller their class size tends to be smaller, and thus somewhat more difficult to get into. If it were me, I'd apply for both and take the WAC class if I was accepted. If not, I'd take one of the Mounties classses....and apply for the WAC class again the next year. You may also consider attending some of each club's public events to meet and assess them. In any case, keep your wits about you and don't be lulled into accepting the 'herd mentality' as a way of life or the only viable approach to climbing activities.

Utah prepares for food tax decrease By BROCK VERGAKIS Associated Press writer Wednesday, December 27, 2006 [oas:casperstartribune.net/news/regional:Middle1] SALT LAKE CITY -- Shoppers buying groceries beginning Monday can expect a slightly lower sales tax, but they shouldn't expect all the food and drinks they buy to be taxed at the same rate. That's because when lawmakers agreed to cut the state's portion of the sales tax on unprepared food from 4.75 percent to 2.75 percent, they also had to define what unprepared food meant. That resulted in some seemingly odd distinctions. A soft drink in a bottle is taxed at the new, lower rate. A soft drink from a fountain machine doesn't get the discount. The difference? The fountain machine soda is served with "utensils" -- a cup, lid and straw. The same goes for deli items such as sandwiches and salads. If it comes with a fork, expect to pay the higher sales tax. "It seems stupid. It seems kind of random, but it's not like it makes that much of a difference, really. I probably won't even notice it," said Emily Martinez, 19, who was going grocery shopping at a downtown Albertsons in Salt Lake City. And while hot dogs and sandwiches sold at convenience stores will be taxed at the higher rate, bargain hunters can save a few cents by buying the ingredients and making sandwiches themselves. Sometimes, a napkin makes the difference in price. Bagels and doughnuts sold with a napkin don't get the discount, but those in a box do. Even vending machines aren't uniform in their tax rules. A bag of chips, chewing gum and soda will be taxed at the lower rate. A premixed cup of hot chocolate, sandwich or a slice of pizza are taxed at the full rate. That's because each of those have more than one ingredient. For people like Derrick Jones, who is unemployed, taxing any food is maddening. "Why are they going to tax me? I can't afford it. They're crooks. That's what they is -- crooks," Jones said while waiting for a bus. In 2006, Gov. Jon Huntsman sought to completely remove the state's portion of the sales tax on food. He had the support of the House, but Senate leaders considered it bad tax policy. So they compromised on reducing the rate. In 2007, Huntsman isn't planning on touching the sales tax on food, instead focusing on reducing income taxes. But House Speaker Greg Curtis, R-Sandy, has said he'd like to see the tax removed. Once again, Senate leadership has said it's opposed to the measure. Rep. Craig Frank, R-Pleasant Grove, said while House Republicans haven't decided how they would allocate $300 million in tax cuts they're proposing, it's likely removing the sales tax on food will be part of the mix. One obstacle -- reprogramming grocery stores computers to identify items that should be taxed differently -- is already taken care of, he said. Grocery stores such as Winegar's Supermarket in Bountiful have said accommodating the new tax system has been very labor intensive. John Burton, Winegar's office manager, said it took each of the chain's three stores about five hours to recalculate the new tax rates. The Legislature allocated $6 million to reimburse businesses to switch over to the dual sales tax. Frank said that probably wouldn't be necessary again. "It should not at this point cause any more frustration when it comes to lowering or removing additional sales tax percentage on non-prepared foods," he said. "They've already made that switch." Customers like Martinez, however, may continue to be frustrated by the oddities of the two-track sales tax. Especially if they go to a movie theater. "Candy isn't taxed but popcorn is? That's weird," she said.

Yes, you can glissade with crampons on. Is it smart or recommended? No. It's kind of like trying to run across the freeway because you're too lazy to walk to the nearest underpass/overpass.

Pisses me off when I take the time to compose a PM to a newb, click the send button, get the message that not all fields are filled in, hit the back button as requested, and lose the whole message. Has happened more times than I care to remember. Any way to dummy-proof this for us clutzes?

14. Provide the name of one route on the infamous Renton granite slab.

Dig me up if you need anything while you're in SLC. If you're housebroken and know someone I know (or someone who knows someone I know) who can vouch for you I'd consider letting you pitch camp in the basement and use the kitchen.

I've been toying with what James really said, what his family member heard, and how everyone else has interpreted it. It would be helpful if the exact words could be recalled...and I'm sure SAR has gone over and over this. One possibility is Nikko went flying and Brian went down to help. "down" can sound much like "town"

The original poster who presented this theory did not mention "self arest". It is possible to dislocate a shoulder while doing a hip belay, boot axe belay, or any of the other common techniques we use when we're in a hurry. I can envision this chain of events: climber belaying/lowering one or two other climbers, a sudden loading of the rope, an impact of the belayer into the snow/ice surface, shoulder dislocation, letting go of the rope, climber(s) disappear down the descent route. Even more likely if one the other two climbers were injured, needing assistance on the descent.

Slight tangent: It has been reported that many phone companies work with the FBI to turn on cell phone microphones that can be monitored remotely, effectively turning them into "bugs" or surveilance devices. Of course, a phone has to be on for this to work.

Good comments. To go a little further, it makes my climbing partners, friends, and family all look at me quite strangely when I tell them that if I ever take a fatal fall or am mortally wounded on a mountain, please DON'T risk any lives to retrieve my lifeless corpse or dying body. We all accept a certain amount of risk each time we get out of bed. I think that in mountaineering and other high-risk activities we need to assume a personal responsibility for this risk. In my case I make it well known that I don't want anyone else to risk their lives for me unless there is a clear indication that the risk has a high probability of saving a life.

don't forget US groups like the infamous YOSAR

And Lambone, you of all people should be respectful of everyone here. If it weren't for the willingness of people to risk their lives to save stranded climbers I doubt you'd be around today to "have a bad day". (wagging my finger at you, not calling you out) I, too, have been the recipient of that self-sacrificing spirit. In my case, my partner and I were "found" at the trailhead by the SAR team getting ready to go in looking for us. As it was, the Sheriff's deputy interviewed us, made sure we weren't injured or dehydrated, and thanked us for doing the right thing by hunkering down and tying in when it got dark in unfamiliar territory....and waiting for daylight. That incident convinced me to get a cell phone so I could at least attempt to let my emergency contact know we were delayed but safe so all the good SAR folks wouldn't have to take an afternoon off work again unnecessarily. Kudos to all who are keeping it positive here, the Moderators with the thankless job to weed the garden, and all the people here with genuine concern for the climbers, the search, the searchers, and to those who want to learn something from all of this.

I encourage those with genuine questions, comments, and information to keep posting, and not to get too discouraged by the insensitive bickering of those few "bad eggs". I genuinely hope this thread can continue to be a good source of information from the SAR teams that have chosen to participate. I know that more than a few of my climbing partners around the country are following this thread closely (or at least they were as of a day ago before the sprayers over ran the thread), and the benefits of insights and information here are benefiting a large audience. As with any public forum, it doesn't take but a few to ruin a good thing. There are many of us here pulling for those lost and those searching...MANY more than are posting.

The note was one of the first things found when the alarm was sounded. http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/616247/page/1/fpart/1#Post616344

Why yes Wayne, you are correct. PK's got a gal. I wonder if you're the same 'gal' I introduced PK to some time back.... edit: probably not, I see Wayne refers to you as "M".

3 snaffles walked into a bar and sat down next to Trask, who had an autographed set Ringo's drumsticks hanging out of his fly....

Is Cafe Vita still around on Cap Hill?

wtf??? no snaffles for page tops anymore??

two thumbs up for Lovers Leap. easy access, easy fun trad routes, camping, and great scenery. a mildly interesting sidetrip would be the bolted sandstone routes on Mt Diablo if you're stuck in SF for any length of time. if you're daring, buildering at the Getty Center north of LA could be fun.

Damn, Al! Glad you were able to walk away from that one. Skinny little fu*kers like you always seem to fare better than us 'meatier' folks in events like this. Looking forward to hearing a few more details about it.

WOW! How Dwayner-esque! I miss the photo- and cartoon- doccumentaries.

Word has it that backcountry.com is looking for gearheads for the holiday season. It could be just the opportunity some dirtbag climber-skiers need to make some decent cash and ski some GREAT snow this year. I heard they were at some jobfairs in Denali Nat'l Pk last week tryin to recruit the seasonal park staff...or some such thing.

Petzl authorized the return and replacement of the headlamp, thanks in large part to my neighbor who is a gearhead at Backcountry.com. I should have a new one soon. A big thanks for those guys stepping up to the plate and keeping a customer happy. Lesson Learned: The research I did online (highly scientific and accurate source the internet is...) showed that there have been more than a few problems with the wire shorting/breaking where it comes out of the 'lamp' part of the headlamp. It may behoove one to take care when packing the unit so as not to stress this part.

I must be an exception. I always just pass them my passport and the passport of my passengers and they pass me after a couple of dumb questions, even if there ARE Chinese scientists in the vehicle with me...how times have changed.