Agreed about liebacking with you erik, 100%. Scary, hard to place pro, blah blah. But I do use it on ocassion. first 10 feet of toxic shock? B-line in cochise( which I know chucK has climbed) I don't like it, but I do use it sometimes. I DO pity the fool that liebacks the infamous section of godzilla, like I did ther first time 10 years ago!