DCramer

Alex is wrong for reasons other than Mark's regarding Static as well. As far as "agressive" cleaning I suggested to Fender we not do that but got called a Dick. I'll look at his pictures later.

Cordial? Sorry if my writing (squeezed in here at work) was a bit terse. It's a bit stressed here today. I was just trying to be efficient with time. Not sure how I was a dick to Blake: He does have important plans this weekend and seems psyched to try it out. You basically called someone out and I asked you to prove it. Pretty simply. Not ridiculous. Layout of the route: I asked for your thoughts on the matter. I cannot see the pictures right now so I will have to look at it later. Although I do wonder how big the tree is!

Alright here's the scoop: Blake has inmportant plans this weekend but is psyched to go check it out. Fender: As mentioned in my earlier post I am available on Saturday only. Since Blake cannot go I would rather reschedule so both climbs can be knocked off in one day. Any thoughts? When I made the challenge I had no idea what SS was like. I have since heard that there is a scruffy gully to the left. The route doesn't follow it but it is close. (again I haven't seen it) Since this section is only near the bottom three bolts and there are several more up higher I wonder if in order to save time you would agree to consider only the bolts above the first 2 or 3. You did say that no bolts were required over the entire route. This way we can conduct this experiment quickly and I can get on with the day.

If the crack is one route. I have crack tools. If the crack is not where the route is I'll call bullshit from the start. After all you didnt claim the route is a squeeze job but rather a bolted crack. Traversing off route to the left and right won't cut it.

Looks like my Index plans a for tomorrow are going down the drain due to weather. So this thread gave me an idea. Here it is: Blake and Fenderfour and myself meet in Monroe and drive over to Leavenworth . Blake gets to lead PoP using only the last two bolts. Fender gets to lead Straight Street using no bolts. Both claimed these routes safe on gear. Blake may have already lead PoP on gear. At times of my choosing I will yell “falling”. At which point the leader (Blake or Fender) will leap of the rock and test the validity of their claims. After Blake’s lead I will happily instruct him on bolt removal. I have never seen Straight Street and my only experience in the Gun Club area was walking past on my way to Red Tide on a rainy day several years ago. I can barely remember the Gun Club area but I can remember a friend of mine, Dick, telling me PoP was a good route. I cannot remember him mentioning a bolted crack. Ron has told me that he has considered removing the bolts on Gun Club so I am not discounting the possibility that any of these routes might be bolted cracks but I am always suspicious of facts on cc.com and think it is easy to spray from the keyboard.

Index slime is the result of the tress growing taller. Back in the late 70's you could see a lot more rock from town than you can now. As far as Chasin' the Lizard, I think it is much better to traverse left (belay) and then climb a short but really fun 5.9 pitch to the ledge rather than to grovel straight up. The final short slab pitch to the top needs a scrubbing. I took off most (not all) of the berries growing on the second pitch a week or so ago. If you climb Rattletale walk over and rap the route to the left. Clean as needed.

Going to the Fenix last night instead of Chop Suey was the same as choosing to go to x38 instead of the Cookie. Damn I am getting old......

Why isn't aid climbing trad?

Back when I was a teenager Index was very much ignored and there were easy plums ripe for the picking everywhere. These plums were pretty much at a very achievable standard of the day. Nothing has changed. There are still plenty of plums ready for the picking at the achievable standards of the current day. I wonder why they aren’t being picked? Look around - expand your vision. Worrying about short anchors that for the most part have been in place longer than most Index climbers have been alive seems crazy when one of the ripest plums in the state is 25’ away. (the bottom of 10%: it's clean good pro - ready to go!) I have a list the size of my arm of great looking yet to be climbed routes. The Upper Wall has been ignored. The best free climber I know out of Wa had this to say about Town Crier: Why hasn’t p1 of Golden Arch been freed? (only a few feet are hard on the first pitch up the arch) TC and GA are clean and ready to go. Sick of “dumbed down” routes? Get on these babies – ground up, no preinspection - pure as pure can be. Same with Green Dragon and the Diamond Dihedral. The possibilties are virtually endless. Make your own tradition.

You guys can avoid the crowds on the 28th by stopping by the Town Walls!

It's kinda loose Oly. My suggestions would be: Walk trails (Lower Lump, Inner Walls, Upper Wall and Lookout Point)and make repairs as needed. Blackberry abatement Trash patrols (even on the river side where people squat/camp) Bringing along some snips, loping sears and a hand saw would be useful. Parks has some hand tools for trail repair.

Hey Ben I am sure the moss will be waiting for you!

Just a reminder that the Index volunteer day is just a little over a week away. The majority of the Index crags are managed by Washington State Parks and due to the relatively undeveloped nature of the area it is easy to underestimate how much managing actually occurs. The Parks Department is a supporter of climbing at the Town Walls and has been working with several ongoing concerns including but not limited to rail road crossing issues, Upper Wall trundling and ORV activity . Toilet facilities are looking like a not too distant possibility. The volunteer day is an opportunity for climbers to show their appreciation to State Parks and demonstrate how much we value the park. WCC Link

The FA was by Greg Child and Greg Collum. I would have mentioned the fact that Greg Collum was the first to bolt this route except I thought it was common knowledge. He replaced several chopped bolts as well. I guess he viewed it as a work in progress longer than most people. I am not sure if he was invloved in the last placement of bolts; however, for what it's worth, I believe he approves of this configuration and feels that this configuration is a compromise between the fully bolted stage and no bolts. Although I have no problem posting on this board, I would not feel comfortable "outing" anyone who has chosen not to participate on CC.com. I just have a hard time getting worked up over the whole issue. After it was first chopped Greg called me up wondering if I had done the deed. I gave him my feedback and others gave him feedback as well. As it turns out he stopped his (Index) retro-bolting activity because of the negative feedback. This route keeps popping up for some reason. The FA was not in 1983.

If I remember correctly when I first led CS there were no bolts (or TCUs for that matter)– not even at the anchor. At the top of the arch section to the right and down slightly there was a small sapling growing out of a funky flake that was slung and rapped. Soon a bolt anchor was installed at the top of the arch.. Much better! Eventually a route was squeezed in to the left and CS was lengthened and fully bolted. The bolts came and went in a variety of configurations. I followed it a year or two ago and recall a fp near the bottom, a bolt near the flake/hole and then another bolt near the base of the arch. Above the arch there are two bolts and a bolted anchor. There were a bunch of bolts on the route just to the left. What’s changed? Just what is the spicy version(s)? The version I followed seemed fine to me. By the way I have seen people place cams in the flake/hole many times and wondered if in a long fall the rock would break. Has anyone seen a big fall there. Every other similar feature I am familiar with at Index that has been fallen on has broken. Just an FYI.

Link to events forum!

Link to WCC site.

Right on. I think every time I set out to aid climb at the LW it was it the rain. The time first time, about 30 years ago, was Narrow Arrow Overhang right var. I remember because I left my EB’s at the base and drove off to California without them. I was too poor to buy new ones so for a few months I used an old pair of wrestling shoes. A rainy bivi under the Golden Arch is marred only by the incredible wetness of the pitches below. P1 of Abraxas can be a waterfall in a full on storm.

There were 3 or 4 angles at the start. Can't you place a tcu while standing on the flake?

linky The Gynmjones thread reminded me of this spunky write-up by one of the GJ guys. I can remember climbing Sloe Children sans RPs and sans small cams and do no remember any runout. I fell at the cruz. I cannot for the life of me remember anyone suggesting the route was runout. Reality...it’s subjective.

I just saw Porter. A bit tired but in good spirits. He definitely appreciates all the good thoughts. He had a laptop nearby and I offered to spray for him if he would tell me his password but he had too much common sense to spill the beans!

The ultimate impact of this kind of regulation is very hard to predict. Currently the long range plan is to turn the Rieter Pit area into a ORV park. My own sense is that continued road access to the boulders and Zeke’s Wall itself might be dependent on continued ORV activity in the area. If ORV activity were to disappear, climbers may have to go back to long hikes up from the valley floor. Speaking from personal experience hiking from the floor wasn’t a popular thing to do. Maybe legislation like this will improve the chances of the Pit Park becoming reality.

Any suggestions as to where to buy a small bench and lat pull machine in Seattle?

Any suggestions as to where to buy a small bench and lat pull machine in Seattle?

I climbed at the crags in the late ‘70s and early ‘80s, maybe once or twice with that Cstemley guy. 25 years ago it was common to poach an illegal campsite at the crags and given the number of cases I have seen packed in laziness doesn’t seem applicable. I mention the camping because the only time a ranger ever did anything was when one safety pinned a note to a friends new tent fly while he was trying a mixed line up the central gully on Butt Rock in February I think in ‘78 or '79. I wasn’t there but I saw pictures. (Butt Rock has another name in the published guides but I can’t remember it) The crags are just out of the way and the rock wildly variable in quality. Even back in the 70s the ‘locals’ seemed to be just several small groups who rarely communicated. The Crags then equalled solitude. There were no Rps, bits sucked, overall standards were lower and sticky rubber didn’t exist. I bought my first bolt kit for use at the crags. The existing guidebooks are somewhat of a puzzle. Some very obvious routes were never shown. For example there are twoobvious pillars to the right of the Good Book that have some fun routes. The left pillar has a Yosemite like flare up its left side. From there several more pitches lead to the saddle. The Crags just like the North Coast are all about exploring and having fun just being there. Seems like its still pretty much the same.