DCramer

Caveman I did not intend to suggest that you had nothing to offer. My point was that everyone had something to offer and that the synergy resulting from lots of people posting would be amazing. I also didn't relaize I was saying anything bad about Will. I was agreeing that those posting here can and do offer good info.

Not even a slice of the Cascade Climbing Community. This site is a few small crumbs. If enough people started posting to create an entire slice, this site would be AMAZING. Several weeks ago I helped organize a small meeting regarding crag maintenance. About half the people who came were from CC.com. None of the extreme posters expressed any interest in attending. One of those attending was Jon, CC.com's co-founder. I was surprised how everyone including some of those who regularly posted were either extremely negative about this site or thought that the spray often had a deleterious impact. I felt bad for Jon as the meeting was not organized to bash CC.com. I ENCOURAGED those who refused to post to start posting. To date none have. These are guys who climb all the time and are willing to invest their time into the "community.” (Off subject but I have to add that as a direct result of that meeting, different groups have gone out and trimmed trails, replaced old bolts and researched land ownership issues.) By listing all the accomplishments of the various regulars Will indirectly suggests how much this site is missing! If more could be inspired to participate the beta available would be amazing. Wouldn't it be great to post a request for beta on the full ridge on Bear and have someone send you a topo in reply? I think so. This doesn’t mean that spray is always bad. Some of it is good-natured fun. Some posts offer humorous reading. Some is misconstrued as being more mean spirited than is intended by the posters. Some however is just plain rude. Most people I talk to won't post here not because they have a snooty attitude, but because of the offensive attitudes expressed on this site. These are climbers of all abilities and ranges of experience. Mattp is right on the money. A rank beginner telling me about a washed out road is just as useful as and old pro doing so. Sometime ago Dana's Arch was listed as a subject. I sent one person who posted to the thread a PM which turned into a short series of exchanges. In his first reply he said he said he understood why I was reluctant to enter into an online debate. Just an example of how this site falls short of its promise. This site’s swinging; real rockin’ can’t be too far away.

Not sure what Clint was refering to but here is an old picture of the area I was thinking of. Lots of overhanging cracks. [ 12-28-2001: Message edited by: DCramer ] [ 12-28-2001: Message edited by: DCramer ]

I'd agree with most of the advice given previously here. There are several areas at Index which have the potential to be good aid practice areas that are off the beaten track. One place would be the area between the Wart and the Sentry Box at the Lower Lump. This area is steep, has a bit of loose rock and I wouldn't be surprised if a few pins wouldn't come in handy.

After the first few posts I didn't get a chance to see the Rock Police thread before it bit the dust. Thats probably a good thing. Now I proclaim my innocence! Rest assured my dream team is hard at work as we speak fomrulating a comprehensive and incontrovertible reply. Those wishing to contribute to my defense fund email for banking details. Darryl

Received some PMs but forgot to ask that you let me know what part of the state you are located in. Thanks

Hale's Brewery was the site of the first meeting to result from the craig maint. thread of some weeks ago. Climbers interested in exploring ways to work together and improve the climbing enviroment came from as far away as Wenatchee. Topics ranged from trail maintenance, trash collecting, fund raising, interacting with government agencies,increasing climber involvement to the utilization of the internet. Beer drinking and burger eating was somehow squeezed in as well. We need your help saving the world. If you want to get involved send me a PM.

As the bolter of Dana's Arch I can say that direct conversation between people on this site is possible. Thru an exchange of friendly PMs with W, why do I think this isn't possible openly on this site?[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: DCramer ] [ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: DCramer ]

Charlie check your PMs

When I could do a one arm I am not sure how many regular pull ups I could do. I am sure that it is less than the number of pull ups I could do when I was trying to do lots of those. The most effective training for one arms is not regular pull ups. One arms are evil!

Lots of good tips on training in this thread. I think the best workout is the one that keeps you coming back for more. If it's not fun I won't do it. If I don't do it they don't work. I find that when I worked out I would tend to cycle thru different regimens. Not driven by some workout theory but rather boredom. One arm pulls are something of a trick that from my experience have very little impact on climbing and have a high probability of causing injury. Training for levers also can be injurious. If you are seriously training for these guys I would also add in some general shoulder type stuff as well and go slow!

Driving to work today I was debating whether I should phone or email Matt (Perkins) to encourage him not to bring this matter up on this website. For whatever reason most discussions here dissolve into “bitchfests” complete with gratuitous insults. They move off course and absent the immediacy of a face to face encounter there are few controls to correct a misstatement or a misinterpretation, so they remain that way. Then I decided I should go ahead and risk a post here. Several friends and myself wrote a pamphlet that successfully raised funds for amongst other things “crag maintenance.’ Additional contributions from several manufacturers and local retailers have enabled us to leverage these funds. Contributions have been made to bolt replacement efforts at Darrington, Index, and Squamish. Funds were also donated to help create rap stations at Vantage. These rap stations were placed in an effort to reduce erosion after discussion with the DOW. An offer was made to one of the main developers of Si/38 so that the funky “chain hangers” could be replaced. Our modus operandi has been to act as a clearing house of funds/equipment and let active locals take charge with the general assumption that bolts are to used as replacements only. Several posters here have been participating in this activity. Funds have also been used to buy refreshments at several cleaning projects. Additionally several other issues have been addressed. Our original goal was to try to expand outside our original group and try to get a broad group of “Cascade Climbers” involved. Unfortunately we have been slow in doing this and as a result have not been nearly as effective as if we had. It should be relatively easy to create a positive relationship with land managers, other recreational users and fellow climbers. Some but certainly not all relationships need to be coordinated with land managers but these relationships will also remove the need for many controls. Boulder is a sad example of control resulting from climbers unable to act responsibly. It wasn’t too long ago that fist fights were taking place and cars were being wrecked over bolting issues in Eldorado Canyon. The debates on this site inspire the same level of confrontation. If the same energy was devoted to eliminating the Forest Service Parking Fee program, I bet it would be gone. The synergy from a friendly group of collaborators could be remarkable. Let’s get together and talk about issues, concerns, and opportunities. I’d be happy to buy pizza or a pitcher or two. If you’re interested send me a PM. Darryl