carolyn

So would it be pointless to treat an 87 yr old for cancer, just because they are pretty darn old for a human? Some people do believe that any living being is equal (animal, human, plant, insect). In that case, I would take care of my cat with as much care as my 87 yr old grandma when ill. The process of the beings death is vital to its rebirth (not reincarnation). So, bringing your ill pet to the vet, hearing there is no hope, and pts immediately may not allow for a good death/good rebirth. Read the Tibetan Book of the Dead (or Tibetan Book of Living and Dying) for more information on the subject. In some cases, the above scenerio might be the best. I truley believe each situation is unique. There are definately those who stay too attached and have a harder time letting go. I struggle daily with my situation and whether its my cats spirit and will to continue in this life right now OR my attachment to her being in my life. What I do know is if I had her pts immediately (my vets advice) she would have missed out on lots of playing, good food, brushing, bird-watching, snaffle chasing, and catnip highs. Her overall quality of life seems to outweigh the current complications/treatment for her condition. I personally dont regret one thing I have done to help my cat - despite her being near 16yrs old. I would have regretted NOT doing something and wondering. And, yes, I do believe in another life she did or would have done the same for me - the best she could! Thats just my belief. I really do wish I could see the life of an animal as black and white as some. Sure would be less emotion for me to go through!

I sent this to you via pm, mink. In case others might find it useful: cats in crisis financial assistance There are also links to support/info groups on yahoo for particular diseases. I have found the crf group (thanks to sobo) to be very helpful with tips to increase Latte's quality of life. Tips that my vet seemed unaware of at the time. There are also links to help answer your question regarding how much is to much/when is it time? Keep us posted! Carolyn

I was able to work out payments with my vet. If the drug company, which took partial/temporary responsibility for her condition hadnt paid a portion, Im not sure what I could have done. The total cost Im sure has exceeded a couple thousand, including supplies for ongoing fluid therapy, prescription food, various other food expenses, and excessive litter costs. Has it been worth it? Absolutely!!!!! Though she has taken over my life (almost literally)I dont regret one decision or penny paid. It was just one year ago this weekend I was told her condition was grave and she should be put to sleep. I brought her home to say goodbye and...well...after an active morning of eating, playing, and grooming, she is now peacefully laying next to me with those cute squinty eyes. I will say there comes a time to put an end to the expenses and ridiculous amount of visits to the vet. That is where we are at right now. Latte is old and enough is enough. I do what I can to maintain her quality of life at a good level. Once it starts slipping too much it is time to say goodbye. What is exactly wrong? Make sure you fully look into those insurance plans. Ive heard some bad things about them. Ive heard suggestions of putting aside a certain amount (10-25 bucks) a month during the animals life,so when something happens you have some change to put forth. If I had done that for latte I would have saved 1700-4500+ bucks by the time she needed it. Good luck!

I was thinking the exact opposite. clinton vs mcain = mcain would win + the likelihood of the mn gov. becoming the vice prez nom. nooooooo! obama vs mcain = close call, depending on the issues and voting population. Sorry Porter, but I think its too soon and too close to call clinton. I liked Bill Clinton as prez. Yet I think enough is enough with the dynasty of the bush's and clintons. Time for some fresh blood and someone owing less paybacks.

I was impressed with the long line and continuous stream of people going in/out of my precinct. I overheard a woman say to her friend, "All I see are Obama posters. I think we are fucked".

Shit! Here I thought you were in the cities and didnt give me a ring! There is a lot of that scattered around the cities. Not worth getting arrested to climb this particular fall. Though it is usually a good way to gauge when the ice is coming in earlier in the season, without having to walk more than 2 minutes from your car. where did you get the photo? And...what is the prize?

For you Kurt! Long live this thread! If we are lucky this might provide a distraction from the other nonsense and people can go back to discussing what is REALLY important!

Okay, I got my question answered regarding what kind of "help" the mission plans to offer. Yes, I looked at the website. I figured VH wouldnt bother coming back to defend, explain, or answer any questions (which I would understand). 2007 Pre-Trip Report Evangelic Expeditions/Mission Vision I see a lot of other humanitarian efforts done by the organization, some not including preaching. I think that is great. I dont hold anything against a group of people believing in one religion or another heading out to do something they love, being kind towards those they meet and having their own "worship". I do not know this group OR how much they push discussions, bibles, etc. I DO know when I am approached I walk away. I also know I would not appreciate someone pushing the bible on me while climbing (or even walking down the street). Not all christians are pushy. But when there is judgement towards others who believe in something else, or a higher than thou attitude because 'they believe' and 'others dont' it makes me kind of sick. I guess I kind of got that from a sentence in one of the above quotes regarding buddhist flags in a National Park. Kind of got the sense the organization feels it is wrong. Then the line about how there are so many "dead" climbers (not literally) all around and on the mountain ranges. Just makes it sound as if you do not believe the same thing the organization does, then you are not worthy, alive, or as good. ALright. I will stop. Like I said, my question was answered.

wow! Thanks! You are allowing me to see my string of roommates lately as mild. It appears I attract very unhealthy roommates that are unable to communicate and prefer spiteful actions and the silent treatment. Boy, do I wish I could afford to live by myself again - or at least with someone who can act like an adult when necessary.

Not according to my mom, who tells me if I dont believe then I I wont be saved,will go to hell, or whatever happens. My parents have converted over the years to being very strict and preachy in regards to religion. I cant have one conversation with them and not have my lack of "believing" or praying being the fault to all my problems. My brother on the other hand is a very devout christian. He has NEVER even brought up the topic. This I do appreciate. Because of this, he is the one I would go to if I ever did want to hold a discussion or ask questions. I dont have a problem with VH (sorry kurt, had to do it!) and his beliefs, even if they differ from mine. I think he has actually done a pretty good job of defending himself without generally provoking others to argue. I havent looked at the website and probably wont. What I am curious about is this help you are offering VH. Are you offering general assistance to other climbers with climbing OR are you offering help in the form of religion? This hasnt been clear to me during the discussion. Or maybe I need to read slower.

I whine a lot about cold feet and hands. I wore mittens for my first 5yrs of ice climbing because I couldnt find ANY gloves that kept my hands even moderately warm. Last year I attempted the patagonia stretch elements, but it was the wrong size (no return with proform). I wound up buying the white smoke glove after that and they have been AWESOME to climb with even in below zero temps. The stretch elements are meant for climbing. White smoke - skiing, climbing. I just sold the stretch elements to a friend after he climbed in them one day becaused he loved them so much. I have quite a few other tricks I use as well... ie/hydration, asprin in the a.m. (if you arent allergic) to thin the blood, crazycreek wrist warmers (warms the bloodflow going into your hands), and switching into mittens as soon as gloves are no longer necessary.

You could...if you drank a six pack of North American beer!

I hear ya. I think most animal owners just want to let their furry friends live out their lives as comfortable as possible. It is a total judgement call on the owners part as to how much they are willing and capable of doing to keep them comfortable until that time comes. Like I said, Im not longer taking her in for bloodwork. I wont assist feed (I will spoon feed when necessary), I wont give her pills (WAY to traumatic for her), and Im honestly not too concerned about 'what' she eats (she basically eats kitty crack right now. I hope I am able to eat as much yummy, crappy food in my last months). She gets her sub-q fluids, adjusted to her needs and LOTS of love/attention. There are plenty of other medications and procedures I could offer her, but they would all (imho) increase her stress, thus reduce the quality of her life. That said, Latte had what I believe to be a seizure tonight. Ive seen her have about 3 "awake" in the past few years and dozens in her sleep. This was an "awake" type. She never appears to be affected negatively when its done. In fact right now she is doing her evening laps of the house and nibbling on her food. My first reaction is call the vet and bring her in tomorrow. Realistically there is nothing that can be done. Unless or until it appears to be affecting her quality of life, I need to just let it be. Its just another reminder of how much I will miss her and appreciation for days like today, when I got to cuddle in bed with her for hours and read.

Oh- I should also add... I got Latte as a gift 15yrs ago on my bday (celebrated last month). She was only a few months old. It was quite a milestone for us!

Oh, hey there! Ya we are still around, believe it or not. This taking care of her is a lot more work than I would have ever thought! She is worth it though. There will be plenty of time for me to climb and do all the other fun things I enjoy when she is gone. Generally, she is doing well. She goes in spurts of eating well, then goes on a strict diet. Occassionally she has a few days in a row of not eating, but bounces back just as I start thinking we are at the end. Im really working on not getting too upset when she doesnt eat and letting it be what it is. Its pretty tough, though. She is playing quite a bit. I often find her in the bathtub chasing her tail or batting one of her toys around. Just the other day she started running laps around two joining rooms. She gets stoned numerous times a day on her cat nip, plays with her string, follows me around the house, and talks excessively. She is actually sitting on the couch with me again these days - something she hasnt done since we moved to the new place 7 months ago. Im giving her fluids everyday or e/o day, depending on how she is feeling. Unfortunately she wont eat when I am not home, so I have to make a point to be home every 8hrs or so. Really puts a damper on getting out and doing fun stuff these days. My friends think Im crazy and should put her down, but as soon as they see her they find she appears to be a pretty normal cat. Kurt can attest to that! Ive decided not to take her into the vet for anymore tests or procedures, unless it appears to be something easily cureable. None of her lab results would really change how I take care of her. Its too stressful for her and unfair at this point,just to "kill my curiosity". I will know when she is crashing again, and I will then know it is her time. We are probably going to drive each other crazy this winter, as I am extremely under-employed at the moment. Im waiting to be called every day for substitute work. Im also trying to get a resume out by the end of the week to what may be a dream job - and the only thing that would keep me here in MN once Latte passes. Im not counting on it, but its worth a shot. So there ya have it. Pretty tired, but no regrets. The only regret I would have is if I didnt spend this time with her. Thanks for asking!

I would like to meet the real chaps!

I had to replace mine last year and ran into the same problem. I just called them and got new points in the mail within a few days. carolyn

Hey Mike! Good for you and best of luck. But why SLC and why not MN?!?!?! I mean, c'mon!!!! I will miss seeing you when I visit out there. You were one of the first folks in the PNW to take me "under your wing" by inviting me out to J-tree. Whoooo did I need that trip! I enjoyed our conversations and became inspired by your ability to recover from that accident in Red Rocks and get back out there. I also admire your ability to just go after whatever you want (ie/climbing, school). You were part of my formative climbing years and made a difference. Shit! how can I ever forget my first fall on a cam with you on the other end of the rope. Or, you tolerating me playing 'hide and seek' every morning with your cams, so I could get a full critique of placements. You are a goofball and I luv ya for it! I will bug ya when I am free and able to take my year long road trip in the near future. SLC is on my list of places to visit. Good Luck and enjoy whatever you wind up doing. Chau! Carolyn

Ohhhhh, those were the daze!

Thats pretty funny

I wish it could be that easy. I work at a large nightclub known for its music (Think Purple Rain . We give out something like 1000+ bucks in prizes for costumes. Its hands down the busiest night of the year for us. Maybe Siouxsie from the Banshees.

ya, I could pull that off!

Too funny! I have a zillion jobs, most which are seasonal: 1. Bartend 2. Work at an outdoor gear shop/program and teach women's clinics 3. Ropes Course facilitator 4. Work in the public school system 5. Contract work - corporate teambuilding, outdoor ed, climbing stuff, etc 6. Take care of my cat 7. Look for more work