ScottP

quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: We only render payment in green plants. ScottP if that is acceptable name your price. wow! uh... what it would take to get me there and back?

quote: Originally posted by jblakley: ScottP, I don't think you should hold back dude. I think a certain amount of conflict is good for any discussion. Get's everyone to think. If someone is offended by someone elses opinion then maybe they should go talk to their mommy and tell her how the bad people don't agree with him/her. I'm not very fond of any form of censorship. I say let it all hang out. Well not all...hey..put that away!! Gee...Okay...One last thought... Alpine -style means fast and light with the intention of doing a route as fast as possible, for safety's sake if not style. You don't set up a camp, you take bivy gear and you use it when and if necessary rather than making a camp TWO of the objectives of a route. The objective is the route with the idea of camping being only a necessary sufferance due to route length. [This message has been edited by ScottP (edited 06-12-2001).]

quote: Originally posted by Bronco: "The discipline of mountain climbing originated in the French Alps, so the word "alpinism" derives from the French root "alp". Alpine style is mountain climbing reduced to it's purest essence, and extreme alpinism takes us to the cutting edge of that style. Alpine style means attempting to climb mountians on the most equitable footing possible, neither applying excessive technology to overcome deficits in skill or courage nor using permenently damaging tactics, and adhering to this ethos from begining to end. It means being equal to the challenge imposed by the natural state of the mountain." Exerpt from the introduction to "Extreme Alpinism", by Mr. Mark Twight. I don't endorse off subject replys, especially to my own topic but, I just finished reading the book for the second time and it was fresh on my mind. It seems to me that Mr. Twight would agree that the campers at Muir are not climbing "alpine style" according to the definition he gives. IMO They don't seem to be climbing expedition style either, just safe and sane. I must apologize for my off topic reply. I have been posting to rec.climbing for years and it is the way things are that if one doesn't agree with the contents of a post it is acceptable to post a reply regarding such a discrepancy. In the future I will try to keep my mouth shut unless it pertains to the subject line of the thread.

As leader of this expedition, I am obliged to charge 60,000 clams to short haul all of you to the summit and back.

quote: Originally posted by Rodchester: ScottP, So I guess when Charlie Fowler and Christine Boskoff climbed Shishapangma last year in "alpine style" not using any "moving" camps or fixed line but made two bivys, they weren't actually climbing alpine style....hmmmmm. I guess all of the greats, Rienhold Messner, Scott Fisher, Carlos Buhler, Mark Twight, and the like will have to rewrite their books and traditions. I'll get a hold of them ASAP. . This is where we differ in our understanding. I believe that the modern meaning of "Alpine-style" means light and fast, bivying when and if necessary, but not carrying the gear to set up an intermediate camp or camps between the base and summit. Stopping for the night at Muir, Sherman, Hazard etc. means that you carry the tent, etc for a CAMP not a BIVY. The people you mention do alpine-style climbs. The majority of the people who go up on Rainier establish a camp, spend (some of)the night, and continue from there. While this is not seige climbing per se, it is not alpine-style in the modern sense of the word.

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: Scott - please explain to me how most people ascend Mt. R They tend to walk. Some people, however, use skiis with skins.

quote: Originally posted by Alpine Tom: The phrase "alpine style" only makes sense in mountains high enough for siege tactics (a string of camps, established in a series of increasingly high climbs, with fixed ropes, sherpas, etc.) But, spending the night at Camp Muir (or Thumb Rock, or the summit) doesn't make it a non-alpine ascent. Technically, I believe it does. You plan to camp at a particular location on the route (not a base camp), then you have an intermediate camp. Hence, it isn't an alpine-style ascent.

It's been a few years, but... Take a selection of hooks for the crux third pitch. When we did it, there was a fixed copperhead, but it was small and not really that fixed. The sixth pitch: I suggest you don't belay right at the base of the pitch (it is a bit loose). There is an alternate stance up and to the right as you look at the pitch. We finished it after fixing to the top of the third. 3 hours to fix and 9 hours to jug and finish the next day.

quote: Originally posted by Rodchester: In my experience apline styple does not mean in a single day, but means that you do not use moving camps. Put simply, everyone does Rainier apline style. The concept of alpine style ascents stems from the days when big mountains were climbed using seige tactics-strings of camps along a climbing route with the final push starting from the highest camp. With the advent of better equipment and techniques, people began abondoning the idea of erecting succesively higher camps and instead choosing to carry everything needed (fuel, food, shelter), bivying when/if necessary. This new ideal was called "alpine-style". Put simply, most people do not ascend Rainier alpine-style. [This message has been edited by ScottP (edited 06-11-2001).]

Let me get this straight: You have a four day weekend and your goal is to do Midway, Midway Direct OR Saber. Dude, do all three and throw in the Old Gray Mare/Canary connection and Direttisema to boot. Then on the second day...

It was a rainy blustery night in Boston Basin. Phil and I were preparing to hunkerdown in his VE25, after a soggy approach to what would prove to be yet another fruitless attempt on Forbidden. After arranging things, Phil opened the door and lit the XGK in the vestibule. The thing flared up a bit, but not enough to do much more than a minor singe. What I remember most is the stench from the incomplete burning of the white gas during the priming phase. It was enough to gag a maggot and stayed with us until we piled out into 6 inches of new snow the next morning.

quote: Originally posted by Alpine Tom: Okay, how about this.... climbing all five volcanoes, solo, and BICYCLING beteen each one! Then I could write a book talking about how everyone else cheats in their climbing but me. Better yet, climb all five volcanoes, solo, in the nude, at night and then crawl through broken glass between each one. Then you can surely claim that everyone else is cheating.

Perhaps you should reconsider the hanging xgk/tent thing. As an alternative, use a propane stove, or something else that uses a less volatile fuel.

I may have missed it, but I didn't see where anybody mentioned the film "El Capitan". An excellent, somewhat artsy film about a late 70's era ascent of The Nose. Plenty of good, though dated climbing shots (One scene has a guy hammering a bong into the Stovelegs after the King Swing). There is one scene that stands out in my mind where Lito Tejada-Flores (Games Climbers Play) is getting into his sleeping bag on one of the bivy ledges by standing in it and hopping. While he is hopping about the ledge, his partner casually advises him that he is not clipped in, to which he appropriately replies, "F**K!"

quote: Originally posted by mikeadam: Oh and BTW go climbing? yeah so sorry I do it at will because I was smart enough to get myself retired before thirty. Mike Adamson An interesting dichotomy (easily explained, I'm sure): "Great site with interesting trip reports and photos. Another person like myself being worked to death and dreaming all day about getting back to a life of climbing." (excerpted from a link description on alpinelite.com)

quote: Originally posted by nolanr: I've heard of the crazy painter guys at Frenchman. They pretty much invented climbing over there, didn't they? Actually, the Prater brothers, Fred Stanley and others of that generation did routes there in the 50's and 60's. Long before Vantage was a winter climbing destination and there was such a thing as the Gorge at George, I soloed a couple of the Feathers only to find old army surplus pins hammered into the choss. I have one of them in my ancient booty archive at the bottom of my gear storage. But then if you mean modern grid bolting of the place, then I have no idea who started that mess. [This message has been edited by ScottP (edited 06-02-2001).]

quote: Originally posted by haireball: ScottP A mistake isn't stupid until you make it the second or third time -- which it sounds like you probably won't. Hmmm... In my dictionary, it is a stupid mistake if you have the knowlwedge and skill to know better. In both instances, I did. What was missing was a lack of concern due to the circumstances.

This thread got me thinking about what I've learned about climbing over the years and how I've learned it. "It ain't over til it's over" was learned on that rap down Town Crier. After finishing the second pitch of the Lizard at Index, I clipped into a green sling threaded through the funky railroad trash hammered into the base of the third pitch chimney. I tied off long and walked back down the sloping slab to tell Brian that I was off belay. Leaning out to yell, I put some of my weight on the rope and felt it give. Teetering on the brink of balance, I leaned back in to see the green sling and biner I had used slithering down the slab with the bight of rope I had tied off. I made the mistake of telling Brian about this indiscretion and haven't heard the end of it nearly 20 years later. From this I learned to not trust gear I haven't placed and ALWAYS back up your anchors, no matter how mellow the situation. To this day, I don't lean on anchors unless I absoulutely have to (hanging/semi-hanging stances.)

quote: Originally posted by Retrosaurus: A minute or two later I hear Andrew say,"What the f@#k!" And I look over in time to see his rope come whipping down the rock from above him and land on the slabs at the base of the route then slither off into the bushes and talus. How did he lose his belay? Did the belayer just cut him loose?

One to learn from: After rapping from the top of the Triple Overhangs pitch on Town Crier, I settled onto the sloping ledge just outside of Smoke Out, pulled some slack through my device, unclipped, leaned back, and yelled to Rob that I was off rappel. It was only then that I realized that I wasn't anchored to anything but air and I was standing on the edge of the ledge that drops into the second pitch chimney. Complacency chops many.

You call me a Bonehead, but it took me all of 35 seconds to find TWO websites with the requested information.:0 Have fun in the Meadows.

There's a reason it's called CASCADEclimbers.com Anyway, according to this website, http://www.monobasinresearch.org/data/tiogapass.htm and this one, http://www.yosemitegold.com/yosemite/slide99.htm Tioga Pass opened May 12th.

quote: Originally posted by Juneriver: Sure hope those guys show some type of gratitude and good attitudes for the sake of public opinion. I didn't see them on the news personally, but the morning radio show was talking about them and complaining that their tax dollars paid for this rescue and the guys seemed to have a real bad attitudes. I suppose I would be unhappy at having to have a chopper rescue too, but let's not get public opinion against us or rescues on the mountain. I doubt you would be in a chipper, talkative mood after such an ordeal either. As for the talk show types, I never hear them bitch about the cost to taxpayers when the Coast Guard has to go out on a rescue of some boaters in trouble, but that happens all the time.

Tom, I think your best chance would be to not have a partner. On a side note: I saw a memo at the Ranger office at Mt Rainier Natl Park a few years back that described a speed ascent of the mountain. Besides the astounding time of 5 hours, in it's officious way, the memo also stated that such "break neck" speeds were not condoned by the park administration due to safety concerns. I believe that this time has since been bettered. [This message has been edited by ScottP (edited 05-31-2001).]