Backcountry

Here's some to look at additionally: http://aai.cc/programs/wfr.htm

I am looking for some route beta on Spire Rock... What are snow conditions like? --white wet and cold What was the route like? --well we hiked some, bushwacked some, climbed some, dodged a few falling rocks, and then descended... OK, I feel all warm and fuzzy now that I "know" "exactly" what to expect... So sure it's cool to say, hey the route description is a little goofy here, descend via this gully if asked....but do you need to take your Tickle-Me-Elmo on the climb too??? yeah I'm sure the Viesturs, Whittaker, the ghost of climbers past or "whatever" big names climbers are going to "make" the CC.com site just superific....I think it falls perfectly in line with the above statement about people asking what the frickin' snow conditions are going to be like and needing thier Tickle-Me-Elmo's with them...they think that if Ed stops by and says Hi they'll be validated...

In conjunction with the multi screen name post...I think we can just lump it under Clan of the Caveman Kind of like the good softcore porn Auel books Clan of the Cavebear... Spray of Mofo's....makes da day go by betta...

I've rooted around a bit and finally found the letter of the law here's the link to it: http://www.house.gov/resources/105cong/reports/105_a/lwcf65_.pdf Start reading at page 25. Some items of interest: "(1) shall charge and collect fees for admission to the area for for the use of outdoor recreation sites, facilities, visitor cen-ters, equipment, and services by individuals and groups, or any combination thereof;" "(5) may assess a fine of not more than $100 for any viola-tion of the authority to collect fees for admission to the area or for the use of outdoor recreation sites, facilities, visitor cen-ters, equipment, and services." I find the usage of the word recreation interesting...I've found no reference yet as to the claim that if you are using the site for other purposes--educational, religous, treaty rights, etc that you are exempt to pay the fee demo fee. In the Land and Water Conservation Act of 1965 there is reference to such, educational and treaty access at least, but in so far as religous uses I haven't read anything. Additionally how I am reading it, the fee demo supercedes those requirements. From the House Appropriations site: "Forest Service recreation use funding has been increased $10.5 million above the Administration request, and trail construction for recreation is $16 million above the request." This was for FY 2000. Notice is says INCREASE over the administartion requested amounts. I guess that this would be in addition to the $650 million already generated in the fee demo that provides for 100% of money generated to stay within that region.... So...the USFS gets the budget amount they request...an additional ~27 million dollars over that request...and in the fee demo the $650M averaged over the life of the fee demo too.... Anyone else wondering what is happening with the money???

I just read at the House Appropriations site that 650 MILLION was generated to date... http://www.house.gov/appropriations/news/2002/02recfee.htm [This message has been edited by Backcountry (edited 08-14-2001).]

I'm beginning to have more difficulty with this whole ForestPass B.S. Anyone been down on the Oregon Coast lately to try to figure out that mess. You need a accordian file of permits to determine which is the right one to display for the given area. Here's my take of the NWFP Fee Demo. Initially it was set up under the guise that purchasing a pass or paying at the trailhead was to be determined as a "yes" vote, "yes" we'll accept to and continue and express an interest/acceptance to pay the fee for use. However, now I wonder how you can be written a citation for failure to pay the fee or display your NWFP??? This totally baffles me on how you are able to submit your vote as "no" to the fee demo. It's required compliance and a forced "yes" vote to the demo. I think as well that the burden of proof lies with the FS Ranger to show the you were "Recreating". Which under my interpretation of how the fee demo was supposed to work that you did not have to pay if you were using the trails for religous, educational, et al purposes. Fees like this are the most regressive types there are. I dont have a problem per say with a small fee to go directly to maintaining trails etc, akin to the Rainier climbing permit to help defray the cost of hauling the crap barrels off the mtn. However the current administartion or current viewed and percieved administartion of the fee demo sucks. Further, I do have a problem with as mentioned, your vote "yes" is to pay the fee but we are not given a choice to not pay the fee due to the notices of noncompliance(NON) issued to those who don't pay. It's a pay or else...not pay if you are OK with a user fee.

A few years back I was headed to Camp Muir to practice some crevasse rescue and other glacier minded stuff with some climbing buddies. SeanHalling had once again, per his normal Ranger regimen, left me to huff and puff away by myself. We were in the clouds most of the way past Pebble Creek and I had settled to follow the boot track up in favor of attempting a compass land nav. I had ascended to somewhere near Anvil Rock elevation, and was stopping to catch my breath. I had decided to resume the slog upwards to the hut, again I huffed and puffed my way up, mostly focusing about 6 to 8 feet in front of me. For some odd reason, I stopped. Looked up. The clouds parted. In an etheral enigma, Big Lou appeared. Big Lou walked unencumbered by a pack and other than his ice axe, strolled along gleefully returning to Paradise. Big Lou seemingly hovered amongst the clouds and he effortlessly drifted towards me. He neared the place I had just moments before had came to a screaching halt. I stop there nearly our of breath as he walked up to me. He and I see eye to eye in the physical sense, but in stature I felt dwarfed. I felt almost as if I were tresspassing on "His" mountain. He jutted his hand out and asked how I was doing. I weakly replied, I'm fine just slogging along here. He then inquired into my plans, noticing my gear protruding forth from my pack like a gypsy. Practicing crevasse rescue and such Sir. That's great to hear Big Lou responds, giving a reassuring wink and nod. I stammer something along the lines of great to finally meet you and to meet him in all of places. I then had the fortitude to inquire as to his previous activities. Did you top out? No, just up for the day and to see the group back down to Paradise. I mumble something back, and Big Lou looks me dead square in the eye and says something to the effect of have a great time and be safe.... Nearly as he appeared Big Lou descended into the clouds as I stood awe struck with my encounter. I turned uphill, the exchange I just had, replaying through my mind, I once again resumed my plod upwards. Not more than 10 paces and if seemingly done by Big Lou himself, the clouds parted, and I realized that I was only about a quarter mile away from the hut...I felt as if I had been lifted upon his shoulders and carried the remaining distance to the finish...

As a teenager my then new friend SeanHalling told me stories of rapping off the roof of his parents house with 550 cord and I knew then I had to strive for his level of greatness.... Went to L-dub quiet a few times til all of us got spread to the four corners in the military. I got out in '95 but then I was torn between a psycho girlfriend in Fla or moving back here....while sitting on top of a nice route in L-dub I had a profound moment and said the hell with her, I'm coming back. It's been the best decision I have made. I owe all my climbing bug and experience to SeanHalling...

One time....at Band Camp...I put Cavie's crow bar in my.... Seems the Cell Phone Posse must not hit L-dub too much, me personally I might as well be using a pine cone for a phone over there... There seems to be enuf Bat Boys lurking around to take care of any pretty much anything...Not to mention the super secret clandestine Team Gander Mountain for support fire... Cell Phone Pussies [This message has been edited by Backcountry (edited 08-06-2001).]

The Team Gander Mountain R&D Department has been funded by the DOD for the recent months. Some interesting projects have arose from such. Your tax dollars at work...

my alpine mentor SeanHalling...."oh just a little further, right up there, we'll bivi there...oh just a little further, right up there, we'll bivi there....oh just a little further, right up there, we'll bivi there..." 6 hours and 10 crosscountry miles later....oh just a little further, right up there, we'll bivi there

yo ain gunna be jiving en tell yu foos dis a damn shayme... Ann ta Spacey bru-tha

Mitten or thick sock... [This message has been edited by Backcountry (edited 07-25-2001).]

I have a drivers license so I must be able to race on the IRL circuit.........right..... Whatever dude....FLAME ON!

Sweet, I had hoped that it was him...truly rubbing elbows with greatness... Milward is back CONUS...maybe a reunion is in order...

I used to hit Spire circa '90-'91... The dude that grounded wasn't using a black static line was he? There was some shifty dude there everytime I'd go that was all set-up for the gapers and would aussie rap...

Two words: Camel Toes UU [This message has been edited by Backcountry (edited 07-11-2001).]

Leeeeettttttsssss gggeeetttt reeeadddddyyyy toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo RUMBLE!!!!!!

My view is that if you are going to take someone on your rope than that is the responsibility and conditions that you have now accepted. I think what Dudd did is wrong. Group dynamics in climbing are very important and introducing an unknown is asking for problems. Very evident in what transpired for both groups. I think that both groups are in the somewhat grey area of who was more wrong. Kevlar assumed the risk and assumed the responsibility for Dudd as soon as he tied in and they should have insisted that he downclimb with them regardless of the slow and steady pattern that Dudd so insisted he do and further insisting to top out. Kevlar's group wasn't a group, it was two friends/partners and an outsider, who's own disregard for his own safety(perhaps) then in affect compromised thier safety. Bronco then assumed the responsibility and put his group's safety at risk. In the huge dynamic of what Bronco was wishing to achieve they again entered into this huge assumption and disruption as well. Bronco was right for taking him into thier rope, but only to descend. Conditions sounded "fun" and to have someone who is becoming increasingly incapacitated and then to continue to top out. Well that's a choice that I wouldn't wanted to have to make. The safety of the group was comprised in my opinion in an unacceptable manner. If someone wishes to put thier safety at risk under thier own terms(Hey Dudd let's keep moving not safe to stop here) they then assume ALL of thier own safety responsibilities and I would not put myself or partners at risk at that point. The conditions would have become unacceptable to continue under. Have Spyderco, will climb. I'm not saying that I would cut the rope at the first hint of any sort of epic, but I think that personal safety is first, then address the group safety, and seeing the group safety is compromised, act accordingly. If you don't act to ensure your and your group's safety, it's became very obvious at that point that the other person doesn't and that is not acceptable to me in any form and action must be taken and taken decisively. I find it ironic that in PP's original post about climbing he says "Obviously any queries will have to result in a real one-on-one meeting as there's no way to know who's got the skills/experience over the internet." I think that it has become obvious that even meeting in person sometimes doesn't work. Dudd should have never left Muir. Just my rant, keyboard critiquing is easy....so Flame on!!!! [This message has been edited by Backcountry (edited 07-03-2001).]

IT"S GREAT!!!!!!!

Team Gander Mountain prefers Schmidt Ice...with some red vines too...

S S S Shoot Shovel Shut-up Seems there's some ex-Bat boys lurking around here that enjoy that type stuff...

Wipe your ass with THIER daisy chain... Put a turd behind the lip of that bomber hold or where he would have to push to mantle up.... Steal his woman and then make him smell your finger in the morning... Feed him only Powerbars... Make him hump your entire rack up, then only pull off one friend and a stopper for the climb... Sneak several bottles of beer into his pack...retrieve them, but don't share... Stop belaying him to talk to the "Wood Nymphs" passing by...

Chiwawa...sounds really cool when you say you are going up to scramble on Chiwawa...the dog??Wah-happen?? Or how about just confusing Mt Beljica (bell-hike-ah) Somewhat related, a friend finds it rather humorous when approaching a town that is a persons name and you pass the "entering" sign...Uh, like, uh-huh-huh, we're entering Gina...

As for the expedition-super assualt by Team Super-high-speed, I think your dreams of being the first may be been eusurped by the disable gentleman who did it on his "snow-crawler"(read-engineless snowmobile wantabe). They got special permits to camp all over the damn mountain and had a HUGE support group...Dammit my dreams of a FA are squashed......