pope

One of the guys who climbed it in its natural state was Dan Lepeska...he was likely first. According to the bolter, Dan was asked and he approved. But then you've apparently got other dudes who have climbed it and weren't asked. And countless people who top-roped it and left it as a testament to lunacy and skill or whatever. And they weren't asked. Actually, a survery was done but it sounded pretty exclusive..you had to be in a certain club so to speak. The bolter reported that only two people surveyed had a problem with it.

Hey Jens, I know the guy who bolted Dan's Not-So-Dreadful Direct. I promised not to disclose his name (his request). He's pretty sure the route has never been climbed without top-rope inspection and/or pre-placed gear, and this was one of his justifications for bolting it (along with a few other specious arguments). He watches these boards and I'd bet he'd like to know how you did it. Makes little difference to me, and I don't buy the argument that if nobody has flashed it in perfect style, then it deserves bolts. I'm sure it's a bold lead (used to be anyway) in just about any style. Hats off to you for being so audacious. p.s. I know how you did ROTC! Hey remember?

Peter, Watching a female sport climber lead the Edge climb was just an episode in my experience with the route. Truth is, I've never seen anybody else lead it. You may dig up that post and find, after a more careful reading, that I expressed my feelings of respect for her persistence. She took some enormous falls from the crux but her skillful belayer did not allow her to hit the ground. I've read numerous posts written by those in favor of rap bolting which accuse "trad" climbers of being macho and arrogant. Including a story in my post about a female sport climber's ascent of the Edge served the purpose of refuting the myth that only macho trad climbers are capable of enjoying that kind of challenge. Peter, I even spelled it out for you. That's twice now. You're convinced that I'm sexist, and a decade ago you'd have been right on the money. So, take away the gender of the clilmber in my example and what do you have? A sport climber enjoying the Edge's cerebral challenge, taking big falls, and no casualities (but for my poor rope). Peter, you're a smart guy, how might that have supported the premise of my post? OK, OK, OK, B.F.D. You agree that Vantage looks like shit. Guess what: many people think the place is just swell and they wouldn't even cough if Castle Rock went the same direction. Some people just don't think bolts are ugly, and you're not going to change their minds. The best you can do is get them to respect that at certain cliffs, bolts have been avoided because their use has been regarded as cowardly, as lowering the challenge to match low skill. Like it or not, that's always been the counterpart to aesthetics arguments. You can only hope that those who don't subscribe to these ideas will respect them at certain cliffs.

It's true that those opposed to retro-bolting aren't very diplomatic, but then they're not running for office. And if they're short on diplomacy, then your average retro-bolter is abysmally poor in the ability to logically present persuasive arguments. Why are we so eager to reduce the challenges offered by mountaineering? I thought challenge was one of the big reasons we go to the hills. Retro-bolters seem convinced that scary routes must be made safe with bolts, even when perfect safety is just a top-rope away. Another defense of retro-bolting is that it increases traffic, thereby rescuing routes from obscurity. I don't recall anybody lowering the hoop so that I could dunk a basketball; it's understood that not every athletic accomplishment is within the ability of every athlete. And yet we're willing to litter our cliffs with bolts to give ourselves the illusion that we can "lead" 5.11? The routes discussed above have always been accessible by top-rope, but I guess you just don't get the same ego stroke on a top-rope. What is arrogance if not the willingness to say, "My desire to bolt and then 'lead' this route is more important than the wishes of those who don't want the cliffs to look like a construction zone."

What do you want with her, Jimbo? I could hook you up, but you're just going to be terribly disppointed. If you don't have your big wall act together, she'll cut you free with her belay knife. And she doesn't tolerate any funny business...ask me, I know. If you so much as suggest a bivouac she'll drop you like the three foot put.

Hey Hemlock, I knew you'd make it. Nice place here. Didn't you just love the Neutered Prince quiz question? "Who did the first ascent of blah blah blah?" Answer: "I did." Does somebody need a pat on the back?

Charlie, Donna's for real. That's not "maligoo". You've got to meet this broad.

It is said that the sun never sets on Big Lou's schlanger.

There's just something about the little vixen. Believe me, I tried. She's dangerously beautiful, to the point I couldn't even concentrate on the moutain. And she'll make you believe you're going to close the deal, until bivouac time, when you realize she's all business: big wall business. I would imagine she's got a love interest...but I'm certain she's broke a few hearts. There is danger here, danger for the fool who wants more than a female climbing partner.

Gentlemen, hang on to your helmets: looks like Donna's back in town! Now I've climbed some of the world's biggest walls with gals who could hold their own (and mine too), but Donna rocks. She's no Belay Betty, no sir. She can lead out on hairy, wet, flint-hard stone, she can hump loads, and she can even write her name in the snow. If you think you'd like to hook up with her, you've got to learn from my mistakes and not get caught over night up on some big rock. I tried to be a gentleman, but I'm pretty sure I ruined our big wall partnership that night. Just keep your mind on the business and try not to be distracted by her sensuously saucy good looks, and she'll be pushing back the granite frontiers for you.

Peace Arch, Fremont Troll...perfect. I'll help you drill. I've climbed on some artificial climbs, glued up on bridge supports, and just had a blast.

Is that George Bush, Sr. talking?

Yeah, there's no sense in being foolish. But if it's safety we're after, let's top-rope. If it's leading and adventure/thrills we want, give the rock a chance: start from the ground.

Actually, bolts are appropriate when placed on the lead where no other reasonable pro will work. I prefer to toprope, rather than beat the rock into submission in the name of "leading" on rap-placed bolts. If you rap bolt, then "RP" stands for real puss.

May I call you a shameless coward?

Bolts are for Frenchies and other cowards.

How big is Lou's tool? It's so big it plays golf with the President. It's so big it has three moons. It's so big it's got a basement and a lobby. It's so big he can get action simultaneously in three counties. It's so big it's got a snow patch that lasts through July. It's so big it doesn't return Spielberg's calls. It's so big it's got rappel anchors.

My memories pretty hazy, but I could sware that Mike told me he was there when the block fell...right under it! He apparently got the end of his rope cut, but then turned around and climbed it before the dust settled.

Mike Massey. I'll take the $200, but I don't want what's behind the curtain, I'm pretty sure.

Sex Pistols? My second guess would be New York Dolls.

I thoroughly enjoy going to the Post Office in Leavenworth and loading the juke box with every Elvis selection available, then experiencing the irritation of the local hicks as they unpatiently wait for their Bon Jovi song to come up.

Listen, boys, don't project your Big Lou fantasies onto everybody else in the climbing community. I am not queer...I'm a recovering homosexual, and as such, I have no interest in pursuing a relationship with Big Lou. Alpine Kay, I'm not in the way. Go live your dream. And by the way, Aidin': you should try free climbing. Nevertheless, I keep hearing rumors that Lou really is larger than life. I talked to a fellow up by Pebble Creek who said that Lou's unit is so big, it makes its own weather. A gal I met up at Paradise said that McDonald's in Ashford is serving Coke in four sizes: small, medium, large, and Big Lou. A drunk in the Mountain Bar at Paradise said that Lou's unit is so big, Messner was forced to bivouac when he tried to climb it. Look, I know this subject is a bit naughty, but I too am a big boy, and I think mountaineering presents special challenges to those of us who must live with this anatomical abnormality. Just this weekend, my unit suffered three crampon puncture wounds and was slammed in the car door twice. I'm thinking of forming some kind of support group, calling it something like Cascades' Woodsmen perhaps.

Aidin'....I detect in your response an unusual degree of discomfort with public discussion of this topic. May I ask whether you have ever been employed as a Jansport sales representative?

Crazy, you ignorant f#@K, if you would just read MEMOIRS OF A MOUNTIN' GUIDE (that' s mountin', as in mounting, and I'm not talking taxidermy), you would know that Lou and Jim confessed to each other that they'd been with girls, and that they could die up on Index without regrets. Lou explained that they did not, however, disclose to each other the names of their dates, because their father had taught them a gentleman's code of honor: apparently, if a woman was kind enough to let you have your way with her, you shouldn't go spreading her name all over town. Gee, it's just this kind of goofy story that makes Lou's book so fun to read. What a life!

I'm pretty innocent, Cappo. What's an EWW? Anyway, Lou also relates how many, many people ask him why mountain guides are so eager to jump out of their clothes and take a dip in the creek. Lou explains that mountain guides take care of themselves and tend to stay in pretty good shape, and as such, they are proud of the way their bodies look. His book is so full of anecdotes about nudity and mountaineering, it just made me wonder whether those strange three-track ski trails on the Muir Snow Field were made by....