goatboy

For some great visual aids relating to all of this comparative rope technique analysis, see Freedom of the Hills (5th Ed) pp. 227-230. Steve

The who cares post is an absolute embarrasment to climbers. However, I would ask that the website managers NOT remove it, but rather have all of us recognize that these sorts of uncaring people are in fact out there in the climbing world. I have seen climbers pitch in and help each other when the going gets tough, and I've seen them ignore others in need so that they can focus on their own summit plans or whatever. I'm glad we get to see the "who cares" post, for it represents a reality that many people out there are climbing for themselves, and don't give a damn about others. Good to remember that, I think. Best of luck to the folks involved in the search and rescue, and to the missing climbers.

The who cares post is an absolute embarrasment to climbers. However, I would ask that the website managers NOT remove it, but rather have all of us recognize that these sorts of uncaring people are in fact out there in the climbing world. I have seen climbers pitch in and help each other when the going gets tough, and I've seen them ignore others in need so that they can focus on their own summit plans or whatever. I'm glad we get to see the "who cares" post, for it represents a reality that many people out there are climbing for themselves, and don't give a damn about others. Good to remember that, I think. Best of luck to the folks involved in the search and rescue, and to the missing climbers.

Dear Steve O, I find it fascinating that you describe "climbing ethics" as a "lame topic," yet find so much inspiration to write the heated post that you wrote about this "lame topic." I also find it interesting that you write, "Why dont you just leave everyone else alone and worry about yourselfs" when you're failing to model that behavior yourself(s). Personally, I think that climbing has a lot to teach us about ethics and morals, about how we treat each other and how we treat the wilderness, and believe that it's perfectly valid (if not essential) for climbers to discuss ethics as a process of figuring those things out for themselves. This thread arose out of an earlier thread about hauling loads to Muir, but it definitely touches on larger issues. If people out there aren't interested in those issues, fine, but let's not condemn the issues as "lame" just because you're not interested in them. Steve Smith

Dear Steve O, I find it fascinating that you describe "climbing ethics" as a "lame topic," yet find so much inspiration to write the heated post that you wrote about this "lame topic." I also find it interesting that you write, "Why dont you just leave everyone else alone and worry about yourselfs" when you're failing to model that behavior yourself(s). Personally, I think that climbing has a lot to teach us about ethics and morals, about how we treat each other and how we treat the wilderness, and believe that it's perfectly valid (if not essential) for climbers to discuss ethics as a process of figuring those things out for themselves. This thread arose out of an earlier thread about hauling loads to Muir, but it definitely touches on larger issues. If people out there aren't interested in those issues, fine, but let's not condemn the issues as "lame" just because you're not interested in them. Steve Smith

I have a nice photo of the north side, taken from the highway near rainy pass, but I need to figure out how to digitize it for you. I'll see what I can do about that. Meanwhile, good luck. I'm sure you know that Nelson's new book (II) has a photo or two of it as well. Steve

Thanks to everyone for the info! Sounds like some good opportunities for me to get off the "Hilary Step" called Outer Space and onto some quality routes which are less crowded. By the way, it was the one known as Smoker who was questioning the wee hours, not me!!! See you folks at Gustav's. Steve

I'm curious if anyone has heard a report as to when HWY 20 will most likely open this lean-snow year. Thanks, Steve

Jim Nelson's second guide describes a route called Hyperspace on snow creek wall. I'm curious if anyone out there has done the route and what they thought, and if they have any thoughts on gear or routefinding or anything else pertinent which Nelson does not mention. Also, is the route wet in early season (as many of the routes up there seem to be)? Thanks in advance. Steve

Like many innovations, it sounds like its worth a try. The key, in my opinion, would be to wear a very thin liner glove against your skin, then the VBL (hopefully one that won't shred too easily), then an insulated glove on top. I sometimes use waterproof (?) mitts and take my right hand out of the mitten to fumble with gear, leaving the mitt hanging in the leash, in the well-driven tool in the ice. Then slip my hand back into the leashed mitt when I'm ready. Works pretty well for me except on very wet or very cold days. Any cold I accumulate while my hand is out of the mitt is rapidly compensated for by the fingers all warm together in the mitt (rather than having fingers separated by a glove). I'm sure people have their own systems, this is just the one that seems to work for me, for now. I've also seen those black rubber "ice gloves" in various magazines, but have never tried them. As I think about it, I haven't seen those glove ads in some time, maybe they went out of business? Maybe for good reason? The mystery continues....

I'm no doctor, but I have suffered from tendinitis for about 7 years and have collected a fair amount of information about the topic. The pain you're having sounds like "climber's elbow," also known as medial epicondylitis. All of these terms add up to tendinitis, which can be a potentially debilitating condition if ignored (which you are wisely not doing). Different people respond in different ways to various treatments, but the one treatment that seems most likely to help is to REST it and to AVOID REINJURING it once it heals. Tendinitis is the result of little micro-injuries to the tendon, which is, in the elbow's case, a very non-vascular area (very little blood flow to the area). This is why it is slow to heal, as blood flow promotes healing. Since the elbow gets very little blood flow, it can be slow to heal. All of these little micro-injuries can add up and create the inflammation and pain that you now feel. I would recommend the following: 1) Applying heat and cold to the elbow (ie hot water bottle, ice pack) will stimulate blood flow as the capillaries in the area dilate and contract with the heat and the cold. This may promote healing. 2) Resting the elbow and NOT CLIMBING on it is essential to getting beyond the inflammation stage and into the healing stage. 3) Stretching and strengthening the muscles around the elbow seems like a good way to avoid future injury. I don't believe you can actually stretch the tendon itself, but you can warm up and stretch the muscles themselves so they absorb more of the dynamic force of climbing and impart less of that shock into the fragile tendon area. 4) My guess is that your biceps are much stronger than your triceps, which creates an imbalance in the way your arms exert force onto the elbow joint. Consider doing exercises which are aimed at specifically building up your triceps for a more balanced push-pull action. 5) Finally, beware of climbing gyms, or at least the OVERUSE of climbing gyms, which often compel climbers to utilize micro edges and holds which exert extreme force onto tendons. It was in a gym that I first hurt myself. Now, 7 years later, I still suffer from tendinitis and am going to have a sort of last-resort shot of cortizone today in my left elbow. I do NOT recommend cortizone as a first step, rather, as a last step, after you've tried lots of other treatments. Let me know if this all makes sense or if you have any other opinions, treatments, or questions. Also, please correct me if I'm inaccurate in any of my information, I'm eager to learn more. Good luck with your elbow, Rafael! Steve Smith

I took a level I course from NAI on Mt Hood in january and it was excellent, though the low snowpack did not afford much opportunity for in-depth snowpack analysis, pit digging, etc (which are normally more emphasized parts of the hands-on curriculum). We did do lots of transceiver practice, as the conditions were more appropriate for that activity. The NAI also offers a level II course (at crystal mt) and a III course (around Mazama, WA). They describe the level III course as being a "guide's" course. In this course, they do practice using explosives to trigger avalanches (as you would in a heli-ski operation or ski resort). For more info, go to http://www.avalanche.org/~nai/ Hope that info is helpful.

I have a seet of doubles: Mammut 50 Meter 8.6 mm dry ropes I love them. In the mountains, I often just carry one in and double it up, having the leader tie in to both ends and having the second tie into an eight-on-a-bight at the halfway mark. So light! My friend just bought a set of PMI 8.1 mm doubles (which are, to my knowledge, the smallest millimeter rope available which passes the double-rope test as opposed to being a twin-rope set). They're dry and super-light. I don't know if my mammuts will lose their dryness as some other folks indicated happened to them. Once you start climbing on doubles, you'll probably be hooked. good luck

A few random thoughts for you: 1) Tendinitis, when not treated or otherwise dealt with, can become "tendinosis," which is the term physical therapists now use to refer to chronic tendinitis. I have it in my elbow right now. Bummer. 2) Other than ankle sprains and ripped skin (i.e. avulsions or "flappers"), I would say that the most common and prevalent -- and potentially dangerous -- backcountry injury takes place not climbing at all, but rather, COOKING. I know that sounds funny, but burns in the backcountry (either from direct contact with a hot stove or by spilling boiling water) can be very problematic to deal with in terms of pain, infection, and possible loss of mobility -- imagine trying to hike ten miles after pouring a pot of boiling water on your foot! I work with students in the wilderness and have come to recognize that for this population at least cooking can be the most dangerous part of their day (often because people take such care to be cautious when they perceive danger, like when they're climbing, but let their guard down when cooking). Hope that's useful info for you. ------------------

A few random thoughts for you: 1) Tendinitis, when not treated or otherwise dealt with, can become "tendinosis," which is the term physical therapists now use to refer to chronic tendinitis. I have it in my elbow right now. Bummer. 2) Other than ankle sprains and ripped skin (i.e. avulsions or "flappers"), I would say that the most common and prevalent -- and potentially dangerous -- backcountry injury takes place not climbing at all, but rather, COOKING. I know that sounds funny, but burns in the backcountry (either from direct contact with a hot stove or by spilling boiling water) can be very problematic to deal with in terms of pain, infection, and possible loss of mobility -- imagine trying to hike ten miles after pouring a pot of boiling water on your foot! I work with students in the wilderness and have come to recognize that for this population at least cooking can be the most dangerous part of their day (often because people take such care to be cautious when they perceive danger, like when they're climbing, but let their guard down when cooking). Hope that's useful info for you. ------------------

Wow, word gets out quickly through the climbing grapevine . . . And thanks very much for the rapid response! Yes, I am part of the WSU Alpine Club. Some of our folks (probably just a couple, if any) MAY be heading to the Slab area on Saturday, though it sounds like the main falls is in poor condition. I don't think I'll go, however, as I've climbed on the Slabs before and was hoping to have a go at Blodgett Falls. Maybe I'll just go skiing....or head to the hot springs instead.

I'm considering a trip to Lolo Pass this weekend and wanted to know if anyone had any information regarding recent ice conditions in Blodgett Canyon, Montana (especially Blodgett Falls). I realize most conversation on this site centers around Washington State, but thought I'd ask if anyone knew anything about conditions in the "Inland Northwest." Thanks very much for any responses.