wdietsch

My $0.02 for what it is worth. Get a hold of Randall Green (I think he is still in the Sandpoint area) and his buddies who put the route up in the mid 80's and let him know that the pins that used to protect the crux have finally blown. I would give them (as the FFA crew) the courtesy of making the call. When I did this route in about '89-90 (when I could climb .11b) these pins were bomber. I would imagine they have held quite a few falls since they were first put in. I myself put at least two falls on them and if I remember correctly my partner put one on them as well. I just dug out my old "Idaho Rock" guide book by Randall. If you look at the beginning of chapter 7 for Chimney Rock on the top of page 73 Randal writes... "Fixed protection (bolts/pitons) may be encountered on some routes and rappel stations; please maintain them and leave them in place." I say give the man his wish or at least a phone call first before you did anything. Wes [This message has been edited by westerntk@aol.com (edited 10-03-2001).]

jon, I for one truley appreciate your efforts in keeping us informed. Well done. I shall be writting my letter this evening and sending it out tommorrow. wes

mneagle, I've done it twice in early October, last time being in '97. When it is in, what can I say, it's a blast, very doable and depending on your ability can be a nice intro to some basic "mixed" climbing. Sounds like "Cavey" has some recent beta on conditions this year, of course that will be more than likely the most deciding factor. Perhaps some of other guys that have gone up the North Ridge have some more as well. Hey David Parker, isn't "Spike" something else? He is without doubt the biggest "little" guy I have ever met. Having been a Yakima boy for the better part of 20 years I met and climbed several times with him. Spent alot of time skiing White Pass when Dave was the "Mountain Manager". People like Dave(and his wife Mary, god rest her sole) don't come around to often in life. I will never forget one time we were taking some novice friends up the Emmons. We're camped at Shurman and we see these poor "fucks" draggin' their butts down, just beat, turns out they were coimg over from Liberty Ridge. Anyhow, next thing we know, the last guy on the rope unties because he's holding up the rest of the group (4 total, I think, god this was probally '89 or '90)and he's probally still a good 45 min to an hour out of camp coming down the corridor. A couple other climbers in camp rope up and go get the poor sap and Spike goes into the story telling us about when Marty Hoey died while climbing with him and "Wick" on Everest. Just unreal, so much passion, so much depth. It was nice to see Lou give him some space in his book, the man will always be someone I admire not just because he is a climber and a pioneer in our area, but he is truly a "Big" person Wes [This message has been edited by westerntk@aol.com (edited 09-28-2001).]

Does anyone have user feedback on the Marmot Front Point?

I would suggest picking up a copy of Tim Olson's new book "Portland Rock Climbs" put out this past spring. Quite a few new things since Smoot's book was published

spread the word, past it on, anyone else made the call?

G_Man, There is a new climbing guide out for southern Oregon, I have not yet picked it up myself yet however I believe there are some places noted you may wish to check out

Alex, How much was shipping? Any duty? Did you get one or two? If two, did you have a color choice?

Don, I have done this one many times from many angles while spending my younger years living in Yakima. Last fall (2nd or 3rd week Sept) I pulled a car to car leaving the parking lot at Conrad Meadows around 11:00 pm by headlight. There have been many years where the snow fingers Fred shows in the guide book, have receded from the rock so I am not surprise that you found them in this condition. Last year when I went into "The Rocks" via the "Conrad Glacier Lake" side the situation was the pretty much the same. The Mead as you mentioned is always a decent alternative. I have seen the ice there on Labor Day weekend be as hard as a rock From the "melt lake" below the Conrad my personal preferance has always been to cross the "Conrad-Tieton" saddle to the west and head up the eastern edge of the Tieton under Goat Citadel (serious "Goat City" once counted over 25 in this area).This time of year on the Tieton expect hard glacial ice, crampons & axe for sure. Was the Mead (Snow Dome) the same? For the Tieton, this time of year, I personaly would also carry a rope, length dependant on party size. Expect a couple of crevasses at the bottom in the "pressure zone" of the glacier. Which way did you approach?

Does anyone out there actually have any firsthand user feedback on the Granite Gear Alpine Light?

Anyone else made the call or talked/emailed to friends about this issue? Looks like even the "Legendary T-Shirt Man" has gotten more attention

I am with you all the ways guys. Call now, as mentioned above it is quick easy and painless. Voice your opion. Flood the phone lines with feedback (hopefully opposition). It just burns me that I am suppose to "pay to play" on public land.I have not and will not purchase one of these permits. Not only is this double taxation it has never been put to a public vote for the public to decide what happens with public property. I would really like to know what they are doing with the money. This past Friday I drove up to Cloud Cap which is a "Parking Pass" required area. They sure aren't using the funds to maintain the new high dollar "shitter" they build up there at the trailhead. The thing was out of TP and the "pile" was about 6" to 8" below the lid, well above the floor line. My 4 year old wouldn't even let me hold him over the hole to do his thing. This site has over 1200 registered members. If each of us and 2,3,4 or more friends (and their friends) voice our opposition to this fee the numbers obviously add up fast. Tell your frineds. I have many friends who are not avid climbers but enjoy a couple of backpacking trips a year. I am very surprised how many people, including hunters, are not aware of this issue.....let your voice be heard [This message has been edited by westerntk@aol.com (edited 09-07-2001).] [This message has been edited by westerntk@aol.com (edited 09-07-2001).]

That which does not kill me, only makes me stronger. Sgt Mjr Gregory T. Anderson, USMC

Minus 148 deg, Art Davidson

doubletall, I strongly agree with slaphappy. They work (I've done it never again)but you will suffer immensly on the descent. I agree with you that AT boots are in general heavier, but in my opinion it is all about staying in control. If you are really going to go for it, go to Barrabes.com and pick yourself up a pair of the Scarpa Titans for $133.55 + S&H and some duty. You will still be way ahead of Black Diamonds $299.00 retail. They won't climb like Nepal Tops but alot of good things have happened in AT boot designs in the last 5 years.

It is standard pratice by the forest service, and has been for many years (since 1982 I belive) to remove all summit registers within any wilderness area under the departments jurisdiction. As far as national parks I know of many registers still in place from the north cascades to SoCal and also of several that no longer can be found. How they disappeared I do not know. I think the policy SUCKS! As a kid learning to climb in the late seventies I often found the entries to hold great beta on anything from route descriptions to the weather let alone some of the best humor I have read to date. Even hiking to easier summits as a young child it gave you such a feeling of acomplishment to "sign in" like the "big guys" to be "one of the few on the crew". Personally I think all the horse shit on the trail is more offensive than a pvc tube neatly place in a pile of rocks. A tube that less than 1% of the population will ever see

I say haul @$%&!%'s to the top of Midway and throw them onto the highway

I have narrow long feet (12)and my Nepal Tops fit just fine. I have had these for 6-7 years and have never had a blister yet. I must admit I am even surprised, for a boot this stiff when I first bought them I pretty much expected some "pain" breaking them in. They climb excellent, hike very well (for what they are). I have owned a lot of both plastic and leather climbing boots in the past 20+ years, these are among the best I have ever owned.

Steelhead, If you have not yet looked at it, there is a thread titled "Alpine Packs" with a lot of good feedback you may wish to dig thru. Wes

Jim and all, I have done the south side approach around Marmot Pyramid onto the South Entiat Glacier several times. My partner and I have found it to be very straight forward with little objective hazards.It allows you to get a very good look at the lower section of the Entiat Icefall. It does mean more (easy) glacier travel but, I feel it to be a lot "easier" than coming down the east side of the Maude/Seven Finger Col. Last time we were there our objective was the icefall. When we got to the base of the icefall we found two "very slow" moving groups. Not wanting to get mixed up in a "three way" we scoped out the lower route and then moved on to the north face, came back early the next morning and did the icefall. If you are going for the icefall the southern traverse around Marmot Pyramid is the way to go. Wes [This message has been edited by westerntk@aol.com (edited 06-13-2001).]

freeclimb9, Do you know anyone that has one of Wildman's Talus packs? I personally consider it to be heavy but would like to heard (read) some feeback. wes

Lucky, Why are you selling your Ice Sack? How long ago did you buy it? Wes [This message has been edited by westerntk@aol.com (edited 06-01-2001).]

Eric and All, Having been a Yakima boy for a long time I can verify your friends commnets on b/c skiing in the "Rocks". You can usually have a great time thru the 4th of July (in a normal year)right now is usually prime. There have been several years when you could ski from Elk Pass to Curtis Gilbert and back in a day. For those interested I would recommend the north fork of the Tieton River to either McCall Basin or Elk Pass for camp. Even if you spend the day "yo-yo" skiing Old Snowy, it's a great time rip it up

Thanks for the latest feedback. Many of you have mentioned most of the packs I have been considering. I would agree that finding a good cross between pack weight itself and how a pack carries is one of the hardest aspects of considering an alpine pack. The CCW Chernobyl is a great example of this. On one trip I made in Feb several years ago up Rainier the pack was great for both the ski to Muir and climb itself, however when It came time for the ski down (overstuffed you can imagine)it SUCKED! I still would like to know if anyone out there has anything to say about the Mountian Tools Ice Bash

I am looking to replace my CCW Chernobyl and wondered if anyone out there has had any experience with the Mountain Tools packs, primarly the Ice Bash