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#585846 - 08/01/06 04:37 PM
Re: Access Issues on National Park Land
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spray'prentice
Registered: 08/04/02
Posts: 3357
TRs: 4
Photos: 139
Loc: Overlooking Elliot Bay
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Quote:
What are the different kinds of climbers in the Cascades?
Gapers, Wankerz, Mounties, and Hardmen.
Quote:
What can you tell me about bolting in the park?
Hilti's are a lot faster than Bosch's, but either way hand drilling pretty much sucks.
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#585847 - 08/02/06 02:32 PM
Re: Access Issues on National Park Land
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stranger
Registered: 08/01/06
Posts: 7
TRs: 0
Photos: 0
Loc: Washington
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Quote:
What are the biggest issues for climbers in the park?
Getting permits.
How have they changed since you began climbing there?
More people
When did you start climbing in the Cascades? Has getting permits become an issue because there are more people, or has it always been a problem?
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#585848 - 08/02/06 02:40 PM
Re: Access Issues on National Park Land
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stranger
Registered: 08/01/06
Posts: 7
TRs: 0
Photos: 0
Loc: Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
What are the different kinds of climbers in the Cascades?
Gapers, Wankerz, Mounties, and Hardmen.
Could you define each of these?
Quote:
Quote:
What can you tell me about bolting in the park?
Hilti's are a lot faster than Bosch's, but either way hand drilling pretty much sucks.
Can you give me some examples of drilling that you know of within the Cascades?
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#585852 - 08/02/06 04:04 PM
Re: Access Issues on National Park Land
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stranger
Registered: 08/01/06
Posts: 7
TRs: 0
Photos: 0
Loc: Washington
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Quote:
Carolyn: is this for your own personal interest or are you doing research for something? Will your findings be communicated to any governmental body (FS, BLM, etc)?
The more laws you make the more criminals you make. 
Good question, thanks for asking. I am only going to use this information as part of a research paper for my class. I am working toward a Master's of Environmental Education. If I ever end up communicating this information to anyone besides my class, it will only be in the interest of creating a better understanding between climbers and forest service personnel. I am a climber too, so I certainly don't want to see any unncessary regulations come about as a result of my project!
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#585856 - 08/03/06 11:17 AM
Re: Access Issues on National Park Land
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stranger
Registered: 08/01/06
Posts: 7
TRs: 0
Photos: 0
Loc: Washington
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Quote:
Permits? What are those?
I did make my own "NW Forest Park Pass / Golden Eagle Pass" combo pass with a a Sharpie on the back of an old Red Lion Bellevue Inn parking pass, gets me in everywhere. I did get a ticket at a state park, though, and the Ranger wrote that my pass was not valid at WA state parks. Go figure!!
Have you had problems getting backcountry permits within the National Park?
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#585857 - 08/03/06 11:55 AM
Re: Access Issues on National Park Land
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veteran
Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 1503
TRs: 3
Photos: 31
Loc: Your Mom's House
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Quote:
Quote:
Permits? What are those?
I did make my own "NW Forest Park Pass / Golden Eagle Pass" combo pass with a a Sharpie on the back of an old Red Lion Bellevue Inn parking pass, gets me in everywhere. I did get a ticket at a state park, though, and the Ranger wrote that my pass was not valid at WA state parks. Go figure!!
Have you had problems getting backcountry permits within the National Park?
I only go "Guerilla Climbing". Should I get permission to take a dump? Can I breathe now?
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#585859 - 08/03/06 02:08 PM
Re: Access Issues on National Park Land
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stranger
Registered: 08/01/06
Posts: 7
TRs: 0
Photos: 0
Loc: Washington
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Quote:
I only go "Guerilla Climbing". Should I get permission to take a dump? Can I breathe now?
What kinds of things do you usually climb - alpine, sport, etc.? How long have you been climbing?
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#585860 - 08/03/06 02:13 PM
Re: Access Issues on National Park Land
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veteran
Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 1503
TRs: 3
Photos: 31
Loc: Your Mom's House
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Quote:
You got a permit for that ugly mullet, hippy?
Hippies can't stand Death Metal.
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#585863 - 08/03/06 02:29 PM
Re: Access Issues on National Park Land
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veteran
Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 1503
TRs: 3
Photos: 31
Loc: Your Mom's House
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Quote:
A lot of climbers have been doing traditionally multiday climbs as one day pushes to avoid the hassles involved in getting permits.
More like: "Because that's the ultimate style." or "Because that's the way that hurts the most." or "I'M WICKED COOL!"
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#585866 - 08/03/06 04:59 PM
Re: Access Issues on National Park Land
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spray'prentice
Registered: 08/04/02
Posts: 3357
TRs: 4
Photos: 139
Loc: Overlooking Elliot Bay
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There's really only been one case that I know of where bolting in the wilderness was a problem. It resulted, as far as I know, by a lack of communication and poor mapping by the Forest Service. Most climbers are not willing to risk a backlash of their fellow climbers by using power drills in the wilderness. Now, hand drilling is allowed but considered bad form without prior Ranger notification. There is drilling going on in various places around the Cascades, including but not limited to Exit 32 and Exit 38 near North Bend, Darrington, Index and replacement bolts are routinely placed at WA Pass for more obscure routes.
Rad's point is very real and it seems that the most frequent place for this to happen is in the Leavenworth area where there seems to be a movement towards strict enforcement by some of the Rangers there. I was ticketed in the Enchantments (purely my fault), but given the circumstances at the time I felt it was unnecessary and completely unjustified. I consider my fine of $200 my 10 year contribution to the NW Forest Pass system. I consider paying for the use of my National Parks, Wildernesses, and Forest Lands double taxation, and I think everyone remembers what happen in 1776 when the British tried that.
I've studied the NW Forest Pass system in the past and the numbers do not justify the price considering the costs of enforcement and administration of the system. If a less income prevalent couple with children would like to go out and have a nice weekend in the woods, their decision is now affected by the price of permits and parking. That is wrong and completly contrary to the vision of freedom that America stands for. I now do a lot of climbing in Canada, if only because $5 there is less than $5 in America and at least I feel I'm getting something for my money (toilets, hut access, etc.)
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