In the interest of a semi-useful thread (I'm over my spray quota, what can I say)I offer the following.<p>What are your favorite uncommon knots or rope tricks and why/for what situation?<p>I personally found these to be good in the bag o tricks:<p>Garda hitch. Extremely useful anytime you need an emergency haul system, want to haul a pack, or even for emergency ascending (although it's a bitch to use for ascending).<p>Bowline on a bight (aka atomic clip) For fun-in-the-sun type multi-pitch it's a super fast way to anchor to a 2-bolt belay station.

I've found that clove hitching to anchor points on multi-pitch to be fast and easy. <p>I'm not a knot-master though.<p>Rob

I like the bomb coil, for pitching the rap lines in windy conditions. Plus, I just like the name, and the rope looks cool when you toss it...<p>m

Fishing: A bimini twist and a Uni are all I really need. For light line, the Spider hitch and San Diego knots are preferred (<30#). The perfection comes in handy for heavy leader and the Allbright is important to know also.
Climbing: figure 8, water knot, bowline, clove hitch, Munter hitch, prussik, and Hedden (or Klemhiest sp?). I've been using a variation of the bowline for attachment to my harness when freeclimbing, and it really is much easier to untie after being weighted.

I like the single overhand knot for tying two ropes together for a rap. Mainly because it doesn't seem to get hung up as often, but also for the looks people give you when they see you using it. Not a fancy knot, but useful once you get over the psychological issues...

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ben:
<strong>I like the single overhand knot for tying two ropes together for a rap. Mainly because it doesn't seem to get hung up as often, but also for the looks people give you when they see you using it. Not a fancy knot, but useful once you get over the psychological issues...</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
Please refer to this knot by its technical name, the Euro Death Knot or EDK!!!<p>
My favorite knot has got to be the "what knot", which I first encountered in a topology article in Scientific American. It is to the square knot what the thief knot is to the reef knot, if that makes sense.... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Its also totally useless.<p>The double-bunny-ears figure 8 is kinda fun to tie. The highwayman's bight is pretty good for a quick release knot! I bet it would be handy for rapping with one lead rope and 60m of 2mm accessory cord too.

I don't get it ... cause isn't a square knot the same as a reef knot?

Granny knot? One has left over right and right over left and the other one has left over right and left over right. Then the what knot & thief knot have loose ends on opposite side of the knot and reef and granny have both loose ends on the same side. Fern I will show you at ice fest.

Munter with a Mule backed up with an overhand is the best setup to dock a haulbag and lower out.

How's about the venerable truckers hitch??? One never knows when one might have to get hitched to a trucker............<p>
P.S. Really, the Munter hitch, now that I finally know how to use it!!!!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Marcus Engley:
<strong>I like the bomb coil, for pitching the rap lines in windy conditions. m</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Anyone care to explain the nuances of the bomb-coil? Sounds cool, I've just never heard of it until now.

Let's say that at a belay, you're trying to get slings of variable length to terminate in a common "power point". You can decrease a sling's length with a "tornado knot", which starts like a fig-8, but has several wraps around the sling before plunging through the final loop, thus shortening the sling's length more than other knots might. After 18 years of climbing, this is my only contribution to the advancement of mountaineering.

so many tricks, and you want my favorite ONE? a hard choice indeed - <p>* the "Kiwi-coil" (so-called because it was introduced at an AMGA training back in the '80s by New Zealander S.P. Parker) - as a tie-in for glacier travel or short-roping, utilizes the excess coiled rope as a chest-harness<p>* the "Swedish Bowline" - very likely the variation mentioned above as being easy to untie after being loaded - incorporates a clove-hitch into the bowline knot so that when the knot is loaded, the loops of the clove hitch spread under load, acting as a shock-absorber inside the knot, and retaining slack inside the knot as well<p>* the Prussik hitch and all its variants<p>* the Munter (aka Italian Belay) hitch<p>* the Frost knot - the key to tieing an ice-tool leash out of $3 worth of nylon web, that outperforms every factory-leash of my experience...

i dont like the munter very much.......kinks up your rope<p> clove hitch into belay, fast, clean and bomber<p>Aidan

>>>clove hitch into belay, fast, clean and bomber<p>Not so bomber, as it turns out, it will pull through after x many pounds of pull. Don't make it your primary anchor knot.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by JayB:
<strong><p>Anyone care to explain the nuances of the bomb-coil? Sounds cool, I've just never heard of it until now.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>JayB,<p>Let's see if I can explain this well: First off, set the rope up for rap/TR, and secure it so it won't feed through the anchor. Then, starting from the end of the rope to be tossed, make a whole bunch of small coils, either butterfly or circular, in your hand. By small I mean about a foot to a foot and a half, from your hand to the bottom of the coil. <p>Once you have a nice big handful, take a bight of rope and pass it through the center of the coils, then bring another bight THROUGH that bight and cinch it down over the top of the handful. <p>The idea here is that you've got a compact wad of rope, and when you pitch it the extra weight at the end will carry it more where you want it to go. When the rest of the rope comes taut on the anchor, the weight of the "bomb" pulls the second bight out of the first, and whole thing falls apart, as neat as you please-- if you did it right. It takes some practice, but if you like rope tricks it's pretty cool. And it definitely makes tossing the cord in wind a lot easier...<p>m

Jhamaker,<p>The clove hitch is the primary anchor knot prefered by many professional guides. The idea that it slips a bit under (extreme) loads is a non-issue propagated by Mountaineers and WAC club types. Given enough of a load even a figure 8 will slip. If a load large enough to make the knot slip comes on the anchor, then having some dyanamics in the system can only help.<p>Dan

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by danielpatricksmith:
<strong>Jhamaker,
If a load large enough to make the knot slip comes on the anchor, then having some dyanamics in the system can only help.<p>Dan</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Just to add to that: The clove hitch slips at something like 600 pounds (could be way off here), and catches again a few hundred pounds after that.<p>m

A commonly heard term on Construction sites is "if you can't tie a knot, tie alot" Meaning if you don't know any good secure knots, tie the old "bunch knot". I learned my knots right away. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

Useful knots - mule hitch on a Munter or belay plate to free up hands for self rescue or while partner is hanging more than his/her share. <p>Autoblock for ascending or backing up a rappel - easier to free than a prussik, and if you let go of the hitch, it locks to the ascending rope easily. <p>
Favorite scary knot - sheepshank - originally used in sailing to shorten a line - basically a clove hitch around a double bight of rope. In a retreat emergency - double-rope-length rappel on a single rope - tie one end of the rope to the anchor, tie a sheepshank directly below, cut the bights of the rope (it is held intact by the hitch), rappel gently, shake the rope to loosen the hitch and drop the rope. No, I have never had to use it, nor have heard first-hand of anyone using it. Just something to give me shivers.<p>Have fun.

At the end of a self rescue class once, we were presented with a list of situations to try and get out of. One was:<p>Lets say you were stuck up on a blank wall(no features to downclimb) with many rappels to the ground. Each station is 50 meters apart, so you would need two ropes to get off. Problem is, you dropped one of the ropes, and are stranded with only one chord! Getting off the cliff is a matter of life or death, waiting for a rescue is not an option (no one will ever come.)<p>What do you do?<p>One solution was to use a funky knot that I once learned in Boy Scouts. I forget the name, but it might of been the Sheet Bend (I'll investigate that.) It is used for shortening a length of rope without cutting it by folding it and wrapping it around itself.<p>The knot is two difficult to explain, but the basic jist of the knot is that you bend the very end of the rope into thirds and wrap it around itself(you can look it up in the boy scout handbook). This bend will hold under tension, but Only under tension, if unweighted the "knot" will come untied. <p>Here is the catch... You fisrt fix the end of the rope to the anchor. Then you create the Sheet Bend. You weight the rope, then take a knife and CUT one of the three strands of rope that the bend creates [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] It is esential that you cut the right strand or the knot will fail (make sure your backed up to the anchor while doing this!). Be sure the knot holds, unclip your daisy, and rap off! Just be sure not to stand on a ledge or unweight the rope untill you are down to the next anchor. Once down and clipped in, unweight the rope and flip it around a bit, the Sheet Bend will come untied and your rope will fall.<p>Now many of you will say that this is a crazy idea, but think about it; would you rather die quickly while trying to live, or hang out and suffer a slow miserable death on the side of a wall?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by glacier:
<strong>
Favorite scary knot - sheepshank - originally used in sailing to shorten a line - basically a clove hitch around a double bight of rope. In a retreat emergency - double-rope-length rappel on a single rope - tie one end of the rope to the anchor, tie a sheepshank directly below, cut the bights of the rope (it is held intact by the hitch), rappel gently, shake the rope to loosen the hitch and drop the rope. No, I have never had to use it, nor have heard first-hand of anyone using it. Just something to give me shivers.<p>Have fun.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Yaar Atkins! You'll have to show me that one next time I see you. You rap first...<p>m

<img src="graemlins/wazzup.gif" border="0" alt="[Wazzup]" /> <p>Yo glacier! We were on the same wavelength there, talk about a crazy coincedence! Good call on the Sheepshank, I never made Eagle Scout [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lambone:
[QB]I forget the name, but it might of been the Sheet Bend (I'll investigate that.) It is used for shortening a length of rope without cutting it by folding it and wrapping it around itself./QB]<hr></blockquote><p>That doesn't sound like the sheet bend-- ...<p>Well there we go...<p>[ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: Marcus Engley ]</p>

true,true...glacier was right. It is the Sheepshank. I allways got those two mixed up. I'm not exactly sure, but I think it isn't quite a clove hitch that you tie around the bights, and you definately only cut ONE strand. Might want to practice before trying it for real!