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#409702 - 11/04/04 11:44 PM
Re: 4 more years of...
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spray'prentice
Registered: 03/23/02
Posts: 4405
TRs: 0
Photos: 10
Loc: North Carolina
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Quote:
your right, your position may be more acceptable then some, but it still amounts to YOUR position, which isn't any more or less valid than the catholic one, or more less valid than requiring a heartbeat, or a brainsteam, or the ability to breathe independantly. So i just don't see if yours (or any other position) is no more or less valid, how can you justify enforcing it on others? Just because you think your right? Just because the Pope says so?
If theres no clear (i.e. everyone can agree on it, or damn near everyone. Being clear to you or I isn't sufficient)right or wrong, then it's a personal or familial decision, not governmental.
well, my 2cents... I think were approaching dead horse country...
though it's interesting that it's only the two of us left....
I choose to give the fetus the benefeit of the doubt; considering it is its life on the line. If there is any doubt why not air on the side of caution; to save lives rather than take them?
_________________________
"We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give"
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#409703 - 11/05/04 08:58 AM
Re: 4 more years of...
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spray'prentice
Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 2600
TRs: 4
Photos: 40
Loc: Wandering in the Rain
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Quote:
Quote:
your right, your position may be more acceptable then some, but it still amounts to YOUR position, which isn't any more or less valid than the catholic one, or more less valid than requiring a heartbeat, or a brainsteam, or the ability to breathe independantly. So i just don't see if yours (or any other position) is no more or less valid, how can you justify enforcing it on others? Just because you think your right? Just because the Pope says so?
If theres no clear (i.e. everyone can agree on it, or damn near everyone. Being clear to you or I isn't sufficient)right or wrong, then it's a personal or familial decision, not governmental.
well, my 2cents... I think were approaching dead horse country...
though it's interesting that it's only the two of us left....
I choose to give the fetus the benefeit of the doubt; considering it is its life on the line. If there is any doubt why not air on the side of caution; to save lives rather than take them?
In that case again, conceptions seems like a better point doesn't it? It's just that your definition, isn't necessarily better or worse than mine, or better or worse than popes. I think damn near everyone can agree that late term abortion is unnecessary (possible exception being when the mothers life is in danger.) It's the cuttoff date that's sticky, I would say that implantation is too early. I would also say 60 days might be a little late (withough extenuating circumstances; danger to the mother, limited access to healthcare due to abuse or incest, etc).
But I would much rather see us err on the side of personal responsbility and personal freedom (isn't that what this country was founded on?) At the same time, we need to be educating people. I don't think it should be easy to get an abortion and pretty much all other options should be investigated and considered beforehand.
I feel the same way about assited suicide for the elderly.
_________________________
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... ccccrrraaaccckkk
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#409704 - 11/05/04 09:18 AM
Re: 4 more years of...
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spray'prentice
Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 2596
TRs: 8
Photos: 58
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
your right, your position may be more acceptable then some, but it still amounts to YOUR position, which isn't any more or less valid than the catholic one, or more less valid than requiring a heartbeat, or a brainsteam, or the ability to breathe independantly. So i just don't see if yours (or any other position) is no more or less valid, how can you justify enforcing it on others? Just because you think your right? Just because the Pope says so?
If theres no clear (i.e. everyone can agree on it, or damn near everyone. Being clear to you or I isn't sufficient)right or wrong, then it's a personal or familial decision, not governmental.
well, my 2cents... I think were approaching dead horse country...
though it's interesting that it's only the two of us left....
I choose to give the fetus the benefeit of the doubt; considering it is its life on the line. If there is any doubt why not air on the side of caution; to save lives rather than take them?
I think the point is that you have doubts, others do not. Therefore just let everyone make their own choice and leave the government out of it.
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#409705 - 11/05/04 10:50 AM
Re: 4 more years of...
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enthusiast
Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 367
TRs: 3
Photos: 8
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Quote:
But I would much rather see us err on the side of personal responsbility and personal freedom (isn't that what this country was founded on?)
This is an argument I don't quite understand and it's one of the things that miffs me most about conservatives. They're all for personal responsibility and freedom until someone does something they don't like, like gets an abortion or gets gay married. Then they are all for government regulation. Seems a wee bit hypocritical guys.
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#409707 - 11/05/04 11:07 AM
Re: 4 more years of...
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spray'prentice
Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 3560
TRs: 36
Photos: 0
Loc: UW
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Quote:
Quote:
But I would much rather see us err on the side of personal responsbility and personal freedom (isn't that what this country was founded on?)
This is an argument I don't quite understand and it's one of the things that miffs me most about conservatives. They're all for personal responsibility and freedom until someone does something they don't like, like gets an abortion or gets gay married. Then they are all for government regulation. Seems a wee bit hypocritical guys.
Speaking of hypocritical, the religious right wants to establish a "culture of life," but they are strongly for the death penalty. These are inconsistent views in my mind.
Though I am vehemently pro-choice, I will respect the opinion of a Catholic who is pro-life and anti-death penalty, because those views are consistent.
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#409710 - 11/05/04 12:25 PM
Re: 4 more years of...
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sprayer
Registered: 12/04/00
Posts: 8219
TRs: 0
Photos: 13
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I believe that by killing someone, their rights are somewhat infringed.
And we've established that the definition of someone if problematic and subject to personal opinion without much regard to scientific fact.
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#409715 - 11/05/04 02:07 PM
Re: 4 more years of...
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Spray Master
Registered: 04/21/03
Posts: 10539
TRs: 3
Photos: 558
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...and my gf insists we're in "the new Rome" now. Lotta similarities, for sure except the baby-killing thing, of course 
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#409719 - 11/05/04 03:00 PM
Re: 4 more years of...
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spray'prentice
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2779
TRs: 0
Photos: 1
Loc: Ballard, Paris of the west
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Quote:
Roasted baby is an Canadian delicacy.
Those fuckin' savages! We should take over that goddamned country for it's own good!
I'm gunna go up to Vancouver tonight for the weekend.
Should I start the invasion while I'm up there? 
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#409721 - 11/05/04 03:45 PM
Re: 4 more years of...
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 2283
TRs: 0
Photos: 28
Loc: Russia With Love
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It might be hard to find a Canadian to marry in Vancouver. I suggest visiting Yellowknife or Nunavut.
Try here.
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#409722 - 11/05/04 05:59 PM
Re: 4 more years of...
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spray'prentice
Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 4108
TRs: 4
Photos: 58
Loc: Here, right here.
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haha this reads as: | 4 more years of... | Spray | tomtom | in the recent posts. 
_________________________
"Attention, the white zone is for weighting and unweighting only!"
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#409723 - 11/05/04 07:18 PM
Re: 4 more years of...
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spray'prentice
Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 3560
TRs: 36
Photos: 0
Loc: UW
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Quote:
Roasted baby is an Irish delicacy.
Quite a modest delicacy, indeed!
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#409724 - 11/06/04 10:27 AM
Re: 4 more years of...
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 2283
TRs: 0
Photos: 28
Loc: Russia With Love
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Quote:
Quote:
Roasted baby is an Irish delicacy.
Quite a modest delicacy, indeed!
DAD:
There are Jews in the world.
There are Buddhists.
There are Hindus and Mormons, and then
There are those that follow Mohammed, but
I've never been one of them.
I'm a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is:
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.
You don't have to be a six-footer.
You don't have to have a great brain.
You don't have to have any clothes on. You're
A Catholic the moment Dad came,
Because
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.
CHILDREN:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.
GIRL:
Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.
CHILDREN:
Every sperm is wanted.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.
MUM:
Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,
Spill theirs just anywhere,
But God loves those who treat their
Semen with more care.
MEN:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
WOMEN:
If a sperm is wasted,...
CHILDREN:
...God get quite irate.
PRIEST:
Every sperm is sacred.
BRIDE and GROOM:
Every sperm is good.
NANNIES:
Every sperm is needed...
CARDINALS:
...In your neighbourhood!
CHILDREN:
Every sperm is useful.
Every sperm is fine.
FUNERAL CORTEGE:
God needs everybody's.
MOURNER #1:
Mine!
MOURNER #2:
And mine!
CORPSE:
And mine!
NUN:
Let the Pagan spill theirs
O'er mountain, hill, and plain.
HOLY STATUES:
God shall strike them down for
Each sperm that's spilt in vain.
EVERYONE:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite iraaaaaate!
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