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#40402 - 09/05/02 05:00 PM Ligthning Strike
Mike_Gauthier Offline
Evil Dark Lord

Registered: 05/05/01
Posts: 424
TRs: 3 Photos: 22
Loc: Longmire, WA 98397
i've been asked a number of times, what happened with the lightning. david simpson at the JH Guide did a good job recounting our adventures. thankfully weren't part of the NPS morning report or accidents in american mountaineering.

regarding the "teton post" a few weeks ago. i want to thank those who recommended irene's arete and other climbs in the park, the advice was great...

Trio recounts harrowing incident 250 feet below the Teton Range’s highest summit.
By David Simpson
Jackson Hole Guide

Along with their memories of standing briefly on the summit of the Grand Teton last week, Fletcher Brinkerhoff, Mike Gauthier and Dave Schwietert have a more tangible souvenir from their climb of the Tetons’ highest peak — holes fried in their clothing by lightning.

The three experienced mountaineers — who hail from different ends of the country and traveled to Jackson Hole to climb together — were caught in a storm a few hundred feet below the peak’s 13,770-foot summit last week.

The weather seemed questionable from the start of the day, and the trio had decided against climbing their intended route, the more lengthy Petzoldt Ridge, opting for the quicker and more popular Upper Exum route. While there was some precipitation partway up the route, the climbers said there had been no hint of thunder or lightning until the three were just below the summit.

Schwietert was following his partners up a short crack the first time he saw lightning — and he suddenly felt electricity course through his body.

“We hear this pop and I see this orangish-blue light come down the rope,” he said. “And I said, ‘$#!@, I’ve just been hit.’ “

Schwietert didn’t know it then, but it was only the start of on ordeal defined by lightning.

Schwietert, who works as a legislative assistant in Washington, D.C., for Wyoming Sen. Craig Thomas, suggested the group take a climbing trip this summer to the Teton Range. The three originally met during a climbing trip on Washington’s Mt. Rainier, where Gauthier is employed as the National Park Service’s head climbing ranger, and at a rescue course in Arizona, where Brinkerhoff lives and works for the U.S. Geological Survey.

After a warm-up climb Monday, Aug. 19, on Irene’s Arete in Garnet Canyon, the trio decided to take a day off before attempting the Grand. They watched a severe storm hit the mountain Tuesday.

“We said, ‘It’s a good thing we’re not up there,’ “ Gauthier said.

That night, the group hiked to Garnet Meadows and camped in preparation for their climb the next day.

Arriving at the Lower Saddle, a ridge between the Grand and Middle Teton, the group decided — based on clouds they observed at 6:15 a.m. — to try to climb the less-lengthy Upper Exum.

“It wasn’t like we rolled the dice and said we can beat this storm up,” Schwietert said, adding that the group thought they might get wet, but didn’t expect lightning.

Moving relatively quickly, the trio said they passed several other teams, but the first of several fast-moving storms began unleashing precipitation — hail and rain — a little less than halfway up the route. They decided to continue up, they said, partly because they saw blue sky behind the clouds and partly because retreat from that point on the route is difficult.

The weather then improved, and the climbers continued up, but as they neared the summit, another storm cell brought heavier hail and then the first lightning strike, which Gauthier said he believes hit a large boulder about eight feet above the group. They all felt the strike. Gauthier described the feeling as being similar to sticking your hand in an electrical socket — magnified 10 times.

“You feel your heart skip,” he said.

Deciding the best course of action was to seek cover, the three climbers said they wedged into a crack that offered some respite from the hail about 250 feet below the summit. Situated one above another, they removed all their metal climbing gear and stood on packs and ropes to try to insulate themselves from the rock.

“Not too long after that, it hit again, and that one really hurt,” Brinkerhoff said. “At first I said ‘That didn’t really happen,’ but then we started smelling burning hair.”

Brinkerhoff believes the lightning hit wet rock nearby and traveled through the granite, taking the path of least resistance, which was across the crack through the climbers’ bodies. He thinks the bolt entered him and Gauthier through their wet, gloved hands, which were touching rock, and exited on the other side of their bodies at his shoulder and Gauthier’s upper back, where they have burn marks matching burn holes through three and four layers of clothing.

“We were like little filaments,” Brinkerhoff said.

Just after hearing a buzzing sound, a third bolt passed through their bodies, he said.

Gauthier, who said he has had several near-death experiences while climbing and coordinating rescues, wondered about the group’s fate.

“When you have a near-death experience, you think, ‘Is this how it’s going to be?’ ” he said. “We were thinking someone was just going to find us in the fetal position in this crack.”

But he said he was impressed with how he and his partners kept their wits and decision-making ability about them despite the circumstances.

The trio estimates they were pinned down for between 20 and 30 minutes in the crack, during which time they could see that it was sunny out over the valley. After the storm cell passed, the weather looked much better and — being such a short distance from the summit — the group quickly climbed to the top.

“Climbers to the end,” Schwietert quipped.

After spending two minutes at the summit, they began their descent, which they said was difficult in the wet conditions.

The three climbers said the experience reinforced the importance of picking solid team members who can make well-reasoned decisions under difficult circumstances.

“If you’re not on the mountain alone, who you’re climbing with is the most important decision you can make,” Gauthier said. “Honestly, this was a bonding experience for the three of us. We bonded as a team. We were there for each other. ... That’s something you take home and remember — along with your burned clothing.”
_________________________
http://energy.senate.gov/public/

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#40403 - 09/05/02 05:02 PM Re: Ligthning Strike
Mike_Gauthier Offline
Evil Dark Lord

Registered: 05/05/01
Posts: 424
TRs: 3 Photos: 22
Loc: Longmire, WA 98397
before any one gives me too much hell. it's
LIGHTNING!!! i hate typos...
_________________________
http://energy.senate.gov/public/

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#40404 - 09/05/02 05:13 PM Re: Ligthning Strike
JoshK Offline
sprayer

Registered: 07/09/02
Posts: 5570
TRs: 25 Photos: 199
Loc: Seattle
Good to hear everything turned out OK, Mike. That's got to be seriously freaky.

The ironic thing is when I was at Rainer a month or so ago, I was registering for the Kautz route and talking to you about the weather. "Chance of thunderstorms" was in the forecast and if I remember correctly you were saying it's pretty interesting to see them on the mountain and a bit scary. I think you finished up by saying "thankfully I've never been hit" or something along those lines. [Smile]

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#40405 - 09/05/02 05:52 PM Re: Ligthning Strike
chucK Offline
sprayer

Registered: 01/12/01
Posts: 5917
TRs: 20 Photos: 60
Loc: the ruthless 9 to 5
After gettting frizzle-fried, you guys went UP and tagged the summit?!?

I must say...

[rockband] [rockband] [rockband] [rockband]
YOU ROCK !!!! [rockband] [rockband] [rockband] [rockband]

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#40406 - 09/05/02 06:02 PM Re: Ligthning Strike
salbrecher Offline
addicted to cc.com

Registered: 10/16/00
Posts: 547
TRs: 1 Photos: 10
Loc: CANADA
What an electrifying experience. hehe [hell no]

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#40407 - 09/05/02 06:33 PM Re: Ligthning Strike
Fence_Sitter Offline
spray'prentice

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 3074
TRs: 0 Photos: 1
Loc: I GOTCHA!!!!
[Big Drink]
_________________________
"No-one fucks with Riti Sped or her tards!"

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#40408 - 09/05/02 07:01 PM Re: Ligthning Strike
thenodder Offline
stranger

Registered: 04/27/02
Posts: 6
TRs: 0 Photos: 0
Loc: nodderland
sure is nodder

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#40409 - 09/05/02 08:17 PM Re: Ligthning Strike
Winter Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 2270
TRs: 15 Photos: 162
Loc: freshiez!
I was in Cirque of the Towers last week and met a guy named Mike (history prof from Bozeman) and his friend Darcy. They recounted a similar story on the Grand from maybe a couple weeks ago now. They had a party of four and got hit twice in a period of several minutes. The bolts hit the rock, into the first guy, through the three others, and out the last guy in line, who had exit wounds on his knee.

We almost suffered the same fate on the East Face of Pingora but were able to bail to the south shoulder. Scary shit. Glad to hear you made it down safe.
_________________________
chriswinter.blogspot.com

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#40410 - 09/05/02 10:32 PM Re: Ligthning Strike
Duchess Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/02
Posts: 206
TRs: 0 Photos: 1
Loc:
i spoke with a friend today who climbed the exum last week. he told me that the day after they climbed, three OTHER guys got struck by lightning as well. makes one thankful that we live in washington...

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#40411 - 04/05/04 12:36 PM Re: Ligthning Strike
MPaul_Hansen Offline
journeyman

Registered: 05/07/01
Posts: 68
TRs: 0 Photos: 0
Loc: Seattle, WA, USA
Greetings

Wash mtns are NOT exempt from lightning incidents. See Jeff Renners book on lighting. It describes the gruesome death of Paul Brikoff atop Mt Stuart in 1952. His partner Bob Grant barely survived according to the newpaper account that quoted Dr. Otto Trott. Metal zippers and metal pack frames were apparently melted/distorted.

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#40412 - 04/06/04 12:26 PM Re: Ligthning Strike
klenke Offline
spray'prentice

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 3707
TRs: 27 Photos: 588
Loc: On the redactor tractor
While a few of us were sitting on top of Sherpa a couple of summers back, lightning came out of a smallish cumulus cloud hanging over the north side of Stuart. The bolt struck that side of Stuart. We didn't tarry after that. Even the smallest clouds can have teeth.
_________________________
Generally speaking, you aren't learning much when your lips are moving.

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#40413 - 04/06/04 01:23 PM Re: Ligthning Strike
texplorer Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 1943
TRs: 2 Photos: 58
Loc: Reno
Mike, can you post some pics of your clothes.
_________________________
The best climber in the world is the one with the biggest horsecock.

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#40414 - 04/06/04 01:27 PM Re: Ligthning Strike
JoshK Offline
sprayer

Registered: 07/09/02
Posts: 5570
TRs: 25 Photos: 199
Loc: Seattle
What is up with people reviving old threads lately?

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#40415 - 04/07/04 07:59 AM Re: Ligthning Strike
Bug Offline
sprayer

Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 6654
TRs: 5 Photos: 127
Loc: Redmond WA
Old thread worth discussing. I have read and been told that when you are on a mountain in a lightening storm, you obviously do not want to be the highest object around but you also do not want to hang out in cracks and grottos. As Mike described, the electricity traveled through the rock and arced accross the crack, through them. The thing to do is stay above the surface but stay low and stay on your feet so you have rubber between you and the rock. I don't remember where I read this but it was in more than one place.

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#40416 - 04/07/04 11:37 AM Re: Ligthning Strike
JoshK Offline
sprayer

Registered: 07/09/02
Posts: 5570
TRs: 25 Photos: 199
Loc: Seattle
Quote:

Old thread worth discussing. I have read and been told that when you are on a mountain in a lightening storm, you obviously do not want to be the highest object around but you also do not want to hang out in cracks and grottos. As Mike described, the electricity traveled through the rock and arced accross the crack, through them. The thing to do is stay above the surface but stay low and stay on your feet so you have rubber between you and the rock. I don't remember where I read this but it was in more than one place.




I know jack shit about lightning, but I would imagine it would also be a good time to abandon any pickets, ice axes, etc.

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#40417 - 04/07/04 01:08 PM Re: Ligthning Strike
Timcb Offline
member

Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 120
TRs: 4 Photos: 17
Loc: boulder, co
Quote:

I know jack shit about lightning, but I would imagine it would also be a good time to abandon any pickets, ice axes, etc.




I was above palmer chair, climbing towards Illumination saddle on Hood last spring in generally low visibility conditions when our pickets, zippers and axes started buzzing persistently. Strangest, most unnerving storm I've been in, since it was actually snowing and we couldn't actually see any of the storm clouds. The fact that the weather could actually be menacing hadn't even crossed our minds- it was cold, we were on good snow pack, and assumed the cloud we were in was nothing more than good old bad weather. We were quite shocked when we heard lightning strike almost right above us, prob right on the top of illum rock. My partner and I debated (very briefly) whether to drop packs and run for the saddle, but since there was a large party traversing above and a bit ahead of us, I just decided to book it up closer to them. safety in numbers right?

eventually the storm died, but I'd never heard of "thundersnow" before that afternoon (or since).

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#40418 - 04/09/04 11:09 AM Re: Ligthning Strike
MysticNacho Offline
addicted to cc.com

Registered: 03/10/01
Posts: 650
TRs: 0 Photos: 18
What a shocking experience. Good story, I really got a charge out of it.

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#40419 - 04/09/04 01:26 PM Re: Ligthning Strike
marylou Offline
spray'prentice

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2779
TRs: 0 Photos: 1
Loc: Ballard, Paris of the west
Hey, Mike looked awesome in a little 5 minute thing last night on Evening Magazine about climbing ranger rescue training.

Good ambassador for climbing!

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#40420 - 04/09/04 02:26 PM Re: Ligthning Strike
dkemp Offline
addicted to cc.com

Registered: 05/07/01
Posts: 547
TRs: 7 Photos: 4
Loc: Seattle WA
Quote:

I know jack shit about lightning, but I would imagine it would also be a good time to abandon any pickets, ice axes, etc.




I've often wondered about this. So, are metal objects simply good conductors, or are they actually attractors?

Seems to me that lightning rods attract lightning not because they are metal but because they are taller than other nearby objects. Once hit they conduct the current safely to ground. Trees get hit because they are tall, but get destroyed cause wood resists the current.

I was in a thunderstorm on Mt Baker one time - we were hunkered in our tents enjoying the show. One of my team got out of the tent to move the pickets and ice axes away from the tent cause he didnt want them to attract lightning. I said I dont think it helps to move the metal objects away from the tent and he disagreed. But neither of us know jack shit about it either.

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#40421 - 04/09/04 02:45 PM Re: Ligthning Strike
Bug Offline
sprayer

Registered: 02/22/02
Posts: 6654
TRs: 5 Photos: 127
Loc: Redmond WA
Lightning is the result of a static discharge from the cloud much like when you drag your feet on a carpet and then touch somebody's ear.
Where the static discharge occurs is determined by the most powerful attractive force generated on the ground. The attraction is literally a buildup of positively charged ions that are attracted to the static source like a magnet. A lightning rod works because it conducts the positive ions to a closer proximity to the negative ion in the cloud. Whether or not a stack of pickets or climbing gear would have this net effect depends on what else is nearby and how conductive it is coupled with how close it is to the cloud. It could be less conductive but closer or it could be further away but more highly charged (more conductive). As a general rule, I separate myself from metal if I am caught in a thunderstorm. I also spread the metal out so it does not create a singe highly charged conduit. Of course, you could test the whole concept by piling up your metal gear in a heap and holding two pickets above your head while peeing on the rest of your gear. Get pictures and submit a TR.

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#40422 - 04/09/04 02:56 PM Re: Ligthning Strike
Mike_Gauthier Offline
Evil Dark Lord

Registered: 05/05/01
Posts: 424
TRs: 3 Photos: 22
Loc: Longmire, WA 98397
Quote:

Greetings Wash mtns are NOT exempt from lightning incidents.




I don't think Duchess was trying to say that doesn't exist here, just that it's not as frequent as WY or CO. If I recall correctly, she was nearly zapped once on Mount Rainier.

That said; I've seen a fair amount of lightning up here. Many times in the Schurman hut, which is basically a metal culvert. Once even, the hut was glowing with St. Elmo’s fire. VERY SPOOKY! We bailed and stood in the torrential rain down on the Winthrop.

As for photos our clothing? I don't have any. They wouldn’t look that great anyway. Burns were more like cigarette burns, except they went through all the layers of our cloths. We had matching burn marks on our skin. I had a few on my back; one scare was an inch long. My partner Fletcher had the most, roughly 8 or so down the left side of his body. During the event, you could also smell burning hair and flesh.

Bug is right; we were in a terrible place. But there was really nowhere else to go, except UP, and we weren't going to do that. Last summer, lightning in the same place killed a climber.

Doxey, good point, I don’t know if the metal attracts or not. This much I know, when things went down, I didn’t want anything metal next to me!

That storm really whipped up on us. It was pre 11 AM, and we didn’t experience any of the normal buzzing or sizzling sounds, only heavy snowfall. That turned to high winds and grapple during the lightning strikes.

"Ambassador Mike" Hum?? Thanks!
_________________________
http://energy.senate.gov/public/

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#40423 - 04/09/04 06:25 PM Re: Ligthning Strike
marylou Offline
spray'prentice

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2779
TRs: 0 Photos: 1
Loc: Ballard, Paris of the west
Quote:


"Ambassador Mike" Hum?? Thanks!





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