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#291260 - 12/21/03 05:06 PM
Alpental winter upvalley travel restricted
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stranger
Registered: 10/09/00
Posts: 3
TRs: 0
Photos: 0
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Quote:
NOTE-the following discussion rambles, but the point is that it appears Alpental Ski Area is going to disallow climber/skier/snowshoer traffic on the ski trail that is on the left bank of the stream as you head up Alpental valley from the ski area parking lot, and they are asking us to travel on the other side of the stream. In addition, they are going to require us to park in the lower parking lot, the one by the footbridge that collapsed a few weeks ago, and to enter the woods just up-valley from this lower parking lot - at the summer trailhead. This will add a few hundred yards to your travel up the valley, and after new snowfall it will mean more trailbreaking.
--MattP, 12/31/03
Hey - i heard from an Alpental 'security' guy today that they proposed to ban all upvalley travel from Alpental in the Source Lake direction, most especially the normal winter route that gets packed down and used as the downhill return from the Edelweiss run.this would affect access to Chair Pk, The Tooth, etc. Supposedly, this will take effect next week.
This guy claimed they had some 'special agreement two days ago' with the USFS to do this. presumably the North Bend District Ranger. I'd need to see more evidence before i accept the legality of this, e.g. has the ski area paid additional monies for leasing more area than is has in the past? Such leases must be public i should think.
I know USFS exempts backcountry ski access to windy pass for instance from the ski area retrictions; i.e. they specifically allow you and i access over the logging roads (not the groomed trails on mt catherine) to get to windy pass, because of historic prior use. Even should such a lease for the Alpental valley be forthcoming, i would expect a century of backcountry use be sufficient precedent for us to get continued access.
Otherwise, this seems to be a private 'taking' from the public! Anyone else ticked off about all this privitization of public lands?!
Edited by mattp (12/31/03 08:02 AM)
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#291273 - 12/22/03 10:44 AM
Re: Alpental winter upvalley route to be closed!
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enthusiast
Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 221
TRs: 5
Photos: 18
Loc: Seattle
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Wow! This is MAJOR news! This move seems pretty unprecedented! Every ski area in the region that I can think of allows the non-skiing public to park in their lots whether they're using the actual ski area or not.
The only thing I can think of is that this may have something to do with the bridge collapse and the ski area having to divert most of their traffic to the upper lots. But then why wouldn't they allow backcountry users to still park in the lower lot where the bridge was? This sounds like backcountry users are getting  .
The USFS/Alpental needs to come up with an alternative before they go restricting access to their/OUR lots. The area may still be open to use, but if you can't park your car anywhere near there, what's use?
Normally I might just say, "Fuck it! Go somewhere else" but the Alpental area is too convenient to pass up sometimes when you have limited time and need to get your mountain fix.
Edited by savaiusini (12/22/03 11:24 AM)
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#291275 - 12/22/03 11:38 AM
Re: Alpental winter upvalley route to be closed!
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enthusiast
Registered: 07/11/03
Posts: 245
TRs: 1
Photos: 4
Loc: Mr. Rogers' neighborhood
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I just had a conversation with Don Thompson with the USFS, and yes, parking is to be closed starting sometime this week. He has met with the ski area management, and they do in fact have the right to restrict both parking in "their" lots, and use of the winter trail which runs up the west side of the valley and is included in their FS lease. Your $30 trail park permit is no use either, as the trail park is officially closed during the winter season. The ski area has several areas of concern, including user conflict between day users and skiers, liability in light of the recent avalanche fatality w/ involvement of their ski patrol in the search, and (most importantly,) the cost of maintaining plowed parking which they estimate at +/- $100 per car for the season, combined with the fact that they have to turn away paying customers d/t limited parking capacity. Don indicates that the FS has no say in the matter, and is looking into alternatives, such as maintaining the Commonwealth Basin parking lot as a Sno-Park area. He did not expect that to happen any time soon. He wasn't sure if the ski area would be ticketing or towing unauthorized vehicles. He suggested that rather than hammering on him, you send emails to ldonovan@fs.fed.us , who is with the FS headquarters in Montlake Terrace and has more ability to get alternatives underway.
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#291279 - 12/22/03 05:08 PM
Re: Alpental winter upvalley route to be closed!
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spray'prentice
Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 3707
TRs: 27
Photos: 588
Loc: On the redactor tractor
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I agree with savaiusini that they should leave well enough alone.  Lots of roads and the like have liability issues. I-90 costs lots of money to plow and there are deaths on it every year but you don't see it closed down. The avalanche fatality argument just doesn't hold water. More people are likely killed at the ski area every year than there are in the backcountry. The plowing argument doesn't either at least it won't after the Alpental pedestrian bridge gets rebuilt. The percentage of non-skiers (snowshoers, ice climbers, etc.) that use that lot is maybe 5% on a good weather weekend. Why should those 5% be admonished? The parking lot will be plowed anyway for the skiing patrons. I thought that parking lot was a Sno Park anyway? And having the non-DHskiers take the shuttle from the other areas to Alpental sounds so stupid. It's just shifting the parking place to someplace else and wasting space on the bus. There's plenty of parking at Alpental for everyone. Bureaucracy! 
_________________________
Generally speaking, you aren't learning much when your lips are moving.
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#291280 - 12/22/03 07:26 PM
Re: Alpental winter upvalley route to be closed!
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journeyman
Registered: 07/09/02
Posts: 86
TRs: 0
Photos: 0
Loc: Ballard--hip today, Fremont to...
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Hey,
And just FYI, adding to the parking woes if the Alpental parking lot is indeed closed to all but paying skiiers and boarders (Long Live Industrial Tourism!), there is no public parking along the Alpental Rd. right-of-way. It's all private.
Jonathan Pryce
_________________________
One man's beer is another's religion.
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#291281 - 12/22/03 07:46 PM
Re: Alpental winter upvalley route to be closed!
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spray'prentice
Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 3707
TRs: 27
Photos: 588
Loc: On the redactor tractor
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Your comment brought this thought to mind:
If they close the parking lot to non-industrial skiers (snowshoers, etc.), then these people will have to walk the Alpental Road from wherever they'd have to park (probably Snoqualmie Pass Ski Area). That road is about 2 miles long and is walled in with snow (i.e., no sidewalk or suitable pedestrian path). With more pedestrians on the road there is an increased chance of one or more of them getting hit by a car--especially if it is icy. This would be even more dangerous than backcountry avalanches. The powers that be would then command that pedestrians are not allowed to walk the road (they can only take the shuttle?). If that happens, then there is no longer any access unless a driver drops off the rest of his party and he goes without or catches up after taking the shuttle bus.
The foregoing paragraph shows just how boneheaded an idea it is to close the parking lot to non-industrial skiers. 
_________________________
Generally speaking, you aren't learning much when your lips are moving.
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#291283 - 12/22/03 08:11 PM
Re: Alpental winter upvalley route to be closed!
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journeyman
Registered: 07/09/02
Posts: 86
TRs: 0
Photos: 0
Loc: Ballard--hip today, Fremont to...
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I agree, just quoting Abbey. His chapter on industrial tourism is sadly prophetic.
At the pass, the FS, ski resort owners, private land owners and users--indusrial and non-industrial, sightseers and tubers alike--need to get together and figure out access issues, esp. for the winter time when parking becomes scarce.
Not a project I'm willing to drive, however.
Jonathan Pryce
_________________________
One man's beer is another's religion.
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