Buying Gear Online?

Use our price tool to find the best price on any piece or gear or clothing. Purchases using this tool support cc.com.


Supporting Sponsors




Pro Mountain Sports
UL Extreme Down. 5.7 oz


blank
Who's Online
0 registered (), 35 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
27441 Members
50 Forums
100821 Topics
1147485 Posts

Max Online: 627 @ 12/18/06 12:02 AM
Top TR Contributors
ivan 118
KaskadskyjKozak 110
JasonG 103
tvashtarkatena 99
off_the_hook 90
danhelmstadter 88
wayne 77
AlpineK 73
telemarker 71
G-spotter 57
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#1155694 - 07/17/17 10:26 AM Re: [TR] Forbidden - North Ridge 7/9/2017 [Re: JonParker]
num1mc Offline
addicted to cc.com

Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 697
TRs: 0 Photos: 45


Quote:
While the 9x19mm and .45 ACP are acknowledged short range man stoppers with appropriate ammunition, they are far less useful for stopping a rutting bull moose or large predators. Actually, "stopping power" is an unrealistic concept when considering handguns for protection against large animals. It takes something like a .338 Magnum rifle to generate sufficient stopping power with torso hits on a big bear or bull moose and even a .454 Casull revolver doesn't come close to that.

Relatively fat, short, quick expanding bullets along the lines of the 9mm/115 grain, .357/125 grain and .45/200 grain JHPs provide good stopping power against relatively flimsy human beings, especially in an urban setting where excessive penetration is a problem. However, they are at a disadvantage against large animals, where deep penetration through thick fur and hide, heavy muscles and large bones is the primary requirement.

With a handgun, you must have adequate penetration to reach and disrupt the central nervous system, 'cause you're not gonna blow the socks off a big animal with a center of mass hit. Bears, bull moose and big cats are much stronger and tougher than human beings.

It should be obvious that a longer, thinner bullet should penetrate deeper than a shorter, fatter bullet. Sectional density (SD) is the ratio of a bullet's weight in pounds to the square of its diameter in inches. Given the same bullet construction and other factors being equal, the bullet with the greater sectional density will penetrate deeper.

To maximize penetration, heavy for caliber bullets should be chosen for protection in the field, which would suggest 147 grain in 9mm, 230 grain in .45 Auto and 158 or 180 grain in .357 Mag. Here are the SD numbers.

.357 Mag, 158 grain: SD .177
.357 Mag, 180 grain: SD .202
9x19mm, 147 grain: SD .167
.45 ACP, 230 grain: SD .162
The inferior sectional density of the 9mm and .45 ACP bullets is obvious. The 147 grain 9mm is somewhat better than the 230 grain .45, but the 158 and 180 grain .357 bullets are substantially better than either of the auto pistol bullets. When it comes to the critical factor of penetration, the .357 easily wins the comparison.

Kinetic Energy

Of course, when comparing the .45 ACP, 9x19mm and .357 Magnum, especially downrange, an important factor that is not equal is kinetic energy. Energy powers penetration (and also bullet expansion). Here are the energy figures, again from the Hornady ballistic tables.

.357 Mag, 158 gr. XTP at 1250 fps MV: 548 ft. lbs. ME, 464 ft. lbs. at 50 yards, 404 ft. lbs. at 100 yards, 327 ft. lbs. at 200 yards
.357 Mag, 180 gr. XTP at 1150 fps MV: 528 ft. lbs. ME, 466 ft. lbs. at 50 yards, 420 ft. lbs. at 100 yards, 354 ft. lbs. at 200 yards
9x19mm, 147 gr. XTP at 1000 fps MV: 326 ft. lbs. ME, 298 ft. lbs. at 50 yards, 275 ft. lbs. at 100 yards, 238 ft. lbs. at 200 yards
.45 ACP, 230 gr. XTP at 850 fps MV: 369 ft. lbs. ME, 342 ft. lbs. at 50 yards, 318 ft. lbs. at 100 yards, 277 ft. lbs. at 200 yards
Once again, the .357 has a clear and substantial advantage from the muzzle to 200 yards with either 158 or 180 grain bullets.




Edited by num1mc (07/17/17 10:31 AM)

Top
Help Support CascadeClimbers

Sabretooth Crampons
$138.76
Save 25%

Want to browse more deals? Check out our price comparison and deal finder tool!

#1155695 - 07/17/17 10:33 AM Re: [TR] Forbidden - North Ridge 7/9/2017 [Re: JonParker]
num1mc Offline
addicted to cc.com

Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 697
TRs: 0 Photos: 45
Concealed carry is legal for any non prohibited individual in NCNP while hiking and climbing, even without a CCP

Top
#1155696 - 07/17/17 12:06 PM Re: [TR] Forbidden - North Ridge 7/9/2017 [Re: goatboy]
JasonG Offline
spray'prentice

Registered: 10/12/00
Posts: 2700
TRs: 103 Photos: 1645
Loc: Mount Vernon
Originally Posted By: goatboy
Gratitude and respect to the NCNP Climbing Rangers!


You're still not gonna get a permit to Boston Basin this weekend. kisss
_________________________
<><

Top
#1155697 - 07/17/17 12:09 PM Re: [TR] Forbidden - North Ridge 7/9/2017 [Re: JasonG]
KaskadskyjKozak Offline
Sick Spray Bird

Registered: 04/23/04
Posts: 17043
TRs: 110 Photos: 1013
Loc: Above Treeline
Originally Posted By: JasonG
Originally Posted By: goatboy
Gratitude and respect to the NCNP Climbing Rangers!


You're still not gonna get a permit to Boston Basin this weekend. kisss


6 permits, party size 1-12. Could be 6 people, could be 72.

When will the NCNP have a *sane* Boston Basin permit policy -limiting # of people, not parties?

And when will they stop giving guide services the ability to book permits in advance of the general public? Why does paying a franchise fee confer more access rights for public land?
_________________________
49% Motherfucker - 51% Son of a Bitch

Top
#1155841 - Yesterday at 09:01 PM Re: [TR] Forbidden - North Ridge 7/9/2017 [Re: JonParker]
therunningdog Offline
member

Registered: 07/22/02
Posts: 117
TRs: 7 Photos: 101
Loc: South Col, Phinney Ridge
Just got back from doing the NR yesterday. There is now fresh purple tat and a locking biner on the summit block for the east ledges rap descent. I believe this was recently added by NCNP rangers.

What a great route!
_________________________
Whatever you're into, be into it.

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2



Moderator:  chucK, mattp, Off_White, snoboy, To_The_Top 
© 2000-10 cascadeclimbers.com · Cookies · Board Rules · Mark all read ·
Powered by UBB.threads™ · Pimped by: Chinooktc · Top