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#1139970 - 06/11/15 10:53 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: olyclimber]
olyclimber Offline
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Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 25303
TRs: 47 Photos: 895
Loc: In Love with You

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#1139971 - 06/11/15 11:24 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Raindawg]
chirp Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 1832
TRs: 0 Photos: 91
Loc: East Side Baby!
Originally Posted By: Raindawg

Climbing is no longer the vanguard of environmentalism; it's becoming the vanguard of narcissism.

This sums it up perfectly.

Originally Posted By: Choada_Boy
But people want to argue over trees and bolts.

We waste an immense amount of resources just living. I want people to climb and have fun but make sure to mitigate as much damage and waste as you can to allow for the next (if there is) generation.


Originally Posted By: glasscurtains
Still haven't seen a report about you sending free Numbah10 on lead on gear. Until then, shut the fuck up.

You really are a brilliant one.

This really is an entertaining thread. Thanks for helping demystify climbing in the new millenium wink
_________________________
Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment"
-Will Rogers

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#1139974 - 06/12/15 07:25 AM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: chirp]
glassgowkiss Offline
spray'prentice

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 3961
TRs: 3 Photos: 81
Loc: in the gutter
Originally Posted By: chirp
I want


Nobody gives a flying fuck about what you want.
_________________________
Nemesis: "a righteous infliction of retribution, manifested by an appropriate agent..."

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#1139975 - 06/12/15 07:52 AM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Buckaroo]
RuMR Offline
Spray Master

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 11734
TRs: 0 Photos: 75
Loc: Seattle
ahhh man, haven't been on here in a loooong time...

Same old crusty farts (Dwayner, Chirp)...

Funny thing, i've been climbing a little bit more as of late. Was up at Si this weekend, and it was CROWDED. CROWDED with people all having a good time, being courteous and supportive.

The bolts made it accessible to a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't have been able to enjoy it. There were families, teens,kids, old fokkers etc. It was a great use of resources for a living, breathing city to enjoy over a splendid, albeit hot, weekend.

The day before we were at Index and had a great time there. Didn't clip a bolt, wasn't crowded (pretty hot) and was fabulous. Both styles of climbing can coexist with mutual respect.

Dwayner and Chirp, you both smack of elitism. Don, you still haven't sent Chronic despite claiming that you could given the time. Still waiting for the proof...talk is cheap and you are tiring.

Rudy

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DWAYNER SAYS : BOOO BOOO BOOOOO BOOOO

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#1139978 - 06/12/15 08:20 AM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: glassgowkiss]
JBC Offline
member

Registered: 04/28/05
Posts: 132
TRs: 2 Photos: 35
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: glassgowkiss
Raindawg- T-A=0. I will pay you $200 if you free climb while placing gear on lead on Numbah10. And yes, your ascent will have to get verified. Basically, I am calling your bullshit.


Really glassgowkiss? You might want to read a bit more carefully before calling people out. Raindawg never made any claims about free climbing related Numbah10:

Originally Posted By: Raindawg
"Numbah 10" which can be climbed clean on aid
_________________________
I remember when sex was safe and rock climbing was dangerous!

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#1139981 - 06/12/15 09:32 AM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: JBC]
RuMR Offline
Spray Master

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 11734
TRs: 0 Photos: 75
Loc: Seattle
Originally Posted By: JBC
Originally Posted By: glassgowkiss
Raindawg- T-A=0. I will pay you $200 if you free climb while placing gear on lead on Numbah10. And yes, your ascent will have to get verified. Basically, I am calling your bullshit.


Really glassgowkiss? You might want to read a bit more carefully before calling people out. Raindawg never made any claims about free climbing related Numbah10:

Originally Posted By: Raindawg
"Numbah 10" which can be climbed clean on aid


It was implicit in his statement. He has made claims like this of other routes...
_________________________
DWAYNER SAYS : BOOO BOOO BOOOOO BOOOO

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#1139984 - 06/12/15 11:02 AM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Buckaroo]
Choada_Boy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 2432
TRs: 4 Photos: 39
Loc: Your Mom's House
Let's see how that logging at the base of the Lower Town Wall is coming along:


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#1139987 - 06/12/15 11:33 AM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Raindawg]
G-spotter Offline
Sick Spray Bird

Registered: 12/20/01
Posts: 15217
TRs: 57 Photos: 410
Loc: free range
Originally Posted By: Raindawg
Some folks have no problem chopping down living trees to "enhance" their climbing experience while at the same time have a hissy-fit if someone chops their artificial intrusive bolts.
Climbing is no longer the vanguard of environmentalism; it's becoming the vanguard of narcissism.



Look at all the rock garbage at the base of that sad little cliff. Someone should arrest these rocks for littering and leaving their choss all over the slope.
_________________________
Bagging a cougar is one of the most enjoyable sporting feats a young man can accomplish

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#1139989 - 06/12/15 11:59 AM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: RuMR]
Raindawg Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 1295
TRs: 0 Photos: 40
Loc: Exit 39
Originally Posted By: RuMR
Originally Posted By: JBC
Originally Posted By: glassgowkiss
Raindawg- T-A=0. I will pay you $200 if you free climb while placing gear on lead on Numbah10. And yes, your ascent will have to get verified. Basically, I am calling your bullshit.


Really glassgowkiss? You might want to read a bit more carefully before calling people out. Raindawg never made any claims about free climbing related Numbah10:

Originally Posted By: Raindawg
"Numbah 10" which can be climbed clean on aid


It was implicit in his statement. He has made claims like this of other routes...


NO it wasn't implied. Some folks around here are quick to react but slow to read and comprehend. I'll try to make it easier for you to understand.
The example: Numbah 10 at Index.

- It goes clean on aid. In other words, it takes removable gear although several pieces are small if not sketchy.

- Instead of waiting until someone with the ability to come along, or for gear to improve, it was decided to place a line of closely-spaced bolts alongside the crack for the immediate gratification of those who wanted to climb it "free", probably with the idea that climbing the route free is "superior" to that of using aid, even if it means extensive use of bolts next to a crack. (And by the way, it also dumbed-down the aid route although the bolts can be skipped if one wants to experience more of the original character of the climb.)

My opinion: they should have just left it alone until someone with the skill and audacity could lead it free on gear. (Yes...not everything needs to be climbed NOW or ever.) Do I care if anyone can or will climb Numbah 10 free and clean? No, I genuinely don't. I just resent the attitude that it's O.K. to do what was done there.
_________________________
DWAYNER SAYS : BOOO BOOO BOOOOO BOOOO

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#1139990 - 06/12/15 12:06 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Choada_Boy]
Raindawg Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 1295
TRs: 0 Photos: 40
Loc: Exit 39
Originally Posted By: Choada_Boy
Let's see how that logging at the base of the Lower Town Wall is coming along:



And your point? As long as the damage isn't at a global scale then it's O.K. to exempt oneself from personal responsibility at a smaller scale? Now that's environmental! rolleyes Go climber!
_________________________
DWAYNER SAYS : BOOO BOOO BOOOOO BOOOO

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#1139994 - 06/12/15 12:30 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Buckaroo]
Choada_Boy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 2432
TRs: 4 Photos: 39
Loc: Your Mom's House
Eventually the cliffs at the Index Town Wall will be ablated by the solar wind. Bolts at Smith? Non-issue, compared to Beijing. Breeders keep having kids.

I am all for keeping the wilds wild, preserving trees, picking up trash, etc, etc, but in the grand scheme, none of this matters. So don't get your panties in a bunch.

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#1139996 - 06/12/15 12:35 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Buckaroo]
G-spotter Offline
Sick Spray Bird

Registered: 12/20/01
Posts: 15217
TRs: 57 Photos: 410
Loc: free range
It's hard to hold aid climbers up as paragons of clean ethics when they do shit like leave pig heads hanging from belays at Index. That just ain't kosher, son.
_________________________
Bagging a cougar is one of the most enjoyable sporting feats a young man can accomplish

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#1140003 - 06/12/15 02:02 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: G-spotter]
Buckaroo Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 1597
TRs: 11 Photos: 349
Loc: forced bivy
Originally Posted By: G-spotter
It's hard to hold aid climbers up as paragons of clean ethics when they do shit like leave pig heads hanging from belays at Index. That just ain't kosher, son.


Depends if it was a fixed pig head or a removable pig head. Also points for if it was a free range pig head with no hormones or antibiotics.
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Temporary Eternity

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#1140030 - 06/12/15 11:04 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Raindawg]
glassgowkiss Offline
spray'prentice

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 3961
TRs: 3 Photos: 81
Loc: in the gutter
Originally Posted By: Raindawg
Originally Posted By: RuMR
Originally Posted By: JBC
Originally Posted By: glassgowkiss
Raindawg- T-A=0. I will pay you $200 if you free climb while placing gear on lead on Numbah10. And yes, your ascent will have to get verified. Basically, I am calling your bullshit.


Really glassgowkiss? You might want to read a bit more carefully before calling people out. Raindawg never made any claims about free climbing related Numbah10:

Originally Posted By: Raindawg
"Numbah 10" which can be climbed clean on aid


It was implicit in his statement. He has made claims like this of other routes...


NO it wasn't implied. Some folks around here are quick to react but slow to read and comprehend. I'll try to make it easier for you to understand.
The example: Numbah 10 at Index.

- It goes clean on aid. In other words, it takes removable gear although several pieces are small if not sketchy.

- Instead of waiting until someone with the ability to come along, or for gear to improve, it was decided to place a line of closely-spaced bolts alongside the crack for the immediate gratification of those who wanted to climb it "free", probably with the idea that climbing the route free is "superior" to that of using aid, even if it means extensive use of bolts next to a crack. (And by the way, it also dumbed-down the aid route although the bolts can be skipped if one wants to experience more of the original character of the climb.)

My opinion: they should have just left it alone until someone with the skill and audacity could lead it free on gear. (Yes...not everything needs to be climbed NOW or ever.) Do I care if anyone can or will climb Numbah 10 free and clean? No, I genuinely don't. I just resent the attitude that it's O.K. to do what was done there.

Now, this is a total pile of shit statement. Of course you were implying, at least have some balls and stand by your initial statement.
_________________________
Nemesis: "a righteous infliction of retribution, manifested by an appropriate agent..."

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#1140033 - 06/13/15 06:38 AM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: Buckaroo]
num1mc Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 709
TRs: 0 Photos: 45
What does this have to do with cutting trees you don't own, without permission, from private property?

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#1140037 - 06/13/15 08:55 AM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: glassgowkiss]
Raindawg Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 1295
TRs: 0 Photos: 40
Loc: Exit 39
Originally Posted By: glassgowkiss
Originally Posted By: Raindawg
Originally Posted By: RuMR
Originally Posted By: JBC
[quote=glassgowkiss]Raindawg- T-A=0. I will pay you $200 if you free climb while placing gear on lead on Numbah10. And yes, your ascent will have to get verified. Basically, I am calling your bullshit.


Really glassgowkiss? You might want to read a bit more carefully before calling people out. Raindawg never made any claims about free climbing related Numbah10:

Originally Posted By: Raindawg
"Numbah 10" which can be climbed clean on aid


It was implicit in his statement. He has made claims like this of other routes...


NO it wasn't implied. Some folks around here are quick to react but slow to read and comprehend. I'll try to make it easier for you to understand.
The example: Numbah 10 at Index.

- It goes clean on aid. In other words, it takes removable gear although several pieces are small if not sketchy.

- Instead of waiting until someone with the ability to come along, or for gear to improve, it was decided to place a line of closely-spaced bolts alongside the crack for the immediate gratification of those who wanted to climb it "free", probably with the idea that climbing the route free is "superior" to that of using aid, even if it means extensive use of bolts next to a crack. (And by the way, it also dumbed-down the aid route although the bolts can be skipped if one wants to experience more of the original character of the climb.)

My opinion: they should have just left it alone until someone with the skill and audacity could lead it free on gear. (Yes...not everything needs to be climbed NOW or ever.) Do I care if anyone can or will climb Numbah 10 free and clean? No, I genuinely don't. I just resent the attitude that it's O.K. to do what was done there.

Originally Posted By: glassgowkiss
Now, this is a total pile of shit statement. Of course you were implying, at least have some balls and stand by your initial statement.


Really now!
In review:
What does this phrase mean to you? "...Numbah 10" which can be climbed clean ON AID."

Further explained by: "My opinion: they should have just left it alone [instead of bolting next to a crack] until someone with the skill and audacity could lead it free on gear. (Yes...not everything needs to be climbed NOW or ever.) Do I care if anyone can or will climb Numbah 10 free and clean? No, I genuinely don't. I just resent the attitude that it's O.K. to do what was done there."

You don't have to like the opinion, but you should understand it before you react so aggressively.

_________________________
DWAYNER SAYS : BOOO BOOO BOOOOO BOOOO

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#1140049 - 06/13/15 10:20 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: glassgowkiss]
JBC Offline
member

Registered: 04/28/05
Posts: 132
TRs: 2 Photos: 35
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: glassgowkiss
Now, this is a total pile of shit statement. Of course you were implying, at least have some balls and stand by your initial statement.


No glassgowkiss, the pile of shit statement is yours!

Raindawg is standing by his original statement which was quite concise, clear and unambiguous. One that you twisted nearly out of recognition and continue to do so. There was no implication on his part, but rather an erroneous inference on your part.

Perhaps it was an honest mistake, you red into the statement something that was not there, or maybe you just are not very bright and don't really understand this clear statement. I rather suspect that it is really that the statement as is didn't suit your purposes so you twisted it until it did.

Funny you accusing Raindawg of not sticking by his statement. Fact is, he has taken a stance that is largely unpopular here and stuck by it for years. If anyone can be said to be standing by his original statement it is Raindawg.

In contrast the majority of your posts here are utter and complete drivel, but I have to say the twist you have imparted on this thread take the cake, even for you.


Edited by JBC (06/13/15 10:23 PM)
_________________________
I remember when sex was safe and rock climbing was dangerous!

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#1140050 - 06/13/15 11:05 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: JBC]
glassgowkiss Offline
spray'prentice

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 3961
TRs: 3 Photos: 81
Loc: in the gutter
Originally Posted By: JBC
or maybe you just are not very bright

i am sure, you are a genius.
_________________________
Nemesis: "a righteous infliction of retribution, manifested by an appropriate agent..."

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#1140412 - 06/21/15 12:21 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: glassgowkiss]
chirp Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 1832
TRs: 0 Photos: 91
Loc: East Side Baby!
Originally Posted By: JBC
or maybe you just are not very bright
wave

I think JBC is spot on.
_________________________
Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment"
-Will Rogers

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#1140420 - 06/21/15 08:29 PM Re: Logging at Index Lower Town Wall [Re: glassgowkiss]
JBC Offline
member

Registered: 04/28/05
Posts: 132
TRs: 2 Photos: 35
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: glassgowkiss
Originally Posted By: JBC
or maybe you just are not very bright

i am sure, you are a genius.


I am not a genius at all. Even a person of average intelligence should be able to understand Raindawgs statement. Once again, either you chose to ignore his clear statement in order to foster your own argument or you are an idiot.


Edited by JBC (06/21/15 08:34 PM)
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I remember when sex was safe and rock climbing was dangerous!

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