insulation for ice tools

[keenwesh]

Recently I had to cut the grip tape I had applied to my nomics off (scotch 2228) as the amount added was tweaking the swing and I was tired of reapplying a strip to the upper handle every time I did any kind of high dagger hold, think climbing 50 degree neve slopes. My thought was a lightweight foam of some kind around the upper shaft that would insulate your hands and not moosh off after a day of use. Does such a thing exist? I could jerry rig something with cut foam and a epoxy glue, but that seems like a pain when it inevitably gets ripped up and needs replacement. anyone mess with this? Foam/glue used? durability? I want something better for AK next spring, as I need every possible advantage when motoring up those endless icefields. They're brutal enough as is without the screaming barfies...

[DPS]

What about cork or synthetic cork road bike handlebar tape? Cork, and presumably the foam they use in synthetic tape, is a fairly decent insulator, it is easy to apply, remove, and reapply. One trick we used was to spray the bars with hair spray to make the tape stick better, yet easy to remove. Just a thought. http://www.coloradocyclist.com/douglas-gel-cork-bar-tape?gclid=CI7lwde6tsECFVFgMgodj1wAeg

Edited October 18, 2014 by DPS

[genepires]

no example to provide but maybe a better glove instead?

 

wouldn't a glove that was insulated with many small patches on the palm be grand. Have it so that when clutching a tool those patches would all line up and when the hand is open, the patches would spread apart and breathe better.

 

My only good advice is to keep your core warm and you hand should stay pretty warm.

[keenwesh]

aluminum shafts conduct heat so well, some form of insulation is needed. any kind of insulation on the palm would greatly inhibit dexterity. The answer to this really is to use a carbon fiber tool. Still, I think there's something better than scotch 2228. In my experience cork absorbs water and freezes into a slick noninsulator pretty quickly, haven't tried the synthetic stuff though. I'll go look for some thin closed cell foam and see if I can rig something up.

[DPS]

In my experience cork absorbs water and freezes into a slick noninsulator pretty quickly, haven't tried the synthetic stuff though.

They make synthetic, gel type tape that shouldn't absorb water. I bet a CX type who rides their bike around in muddy circles might be able to weigh in on this.

[christophbenells]

i saw alot of people with those carbon fiber bd tools this last spring in ak range. they seem pretty awesome for that high dagger climbing.

 

i had the same problem, my gloves actually froze to my tools on several occasions, where i had to actually pull them apart, and yeah it makes my hands freeze needlessly.

 

i also saw lots of closed cell foam/duct tape combos.

[keenwesh]

If I was made of money I'd get a set of cobras with the coldthistle picks. Even with a pro code that setup would run over 500 bucks, and I'm not sure Dane is still making those picks (are you, Dane?).

 

My thought with the foam is that it is really light, grip tape seems like a heavy option. After climbing for 2 years with the full shaft wrap, and everyone who borrowed my tools remarking on their considerable heft, I want to pair things down. I think it'll make steep ice easier as well.

[DPS]

Cobras are the best swinging tools I've found, but the tiny hammer, ridiculous adze, and picks that are inferior to either Petzl or Grivel's forged designs was enough for me to choose Quarks. I'll try the synthetic cycling tape and report back. I think the added weight might actually be a benefit.

[John Frieh]

Just a guess but I bet nothing is going to hold up as well as mastic/grip tape that will also not freeze overnight and/or absorb water. It would be cool if you find something that is indestructible, easy to grip and doesn't absorb water.

 

I know for me anytime my Nomics or Quarks need new grip tape instead of adding additional grip tape over the existing grip tape I completely remove the existing wrap and put on a fresh wrap so the diameter of the tool doesn't grow over time.

 

Wrapping an ice tool with grip tape regardless of shaft material is a good choice IMHO. Most climbers I know that use carbon fiber shaft tools (Grivel, Black Diamond) still wrap their tools as mastic tape.

 

DPS: Black Diamond makes a larger adze and a full size hammer one can use on the Cobra or Viper but you have to purchase them separately and it makes the tool overall heavier. I have a few partners that will use the larger hammer for alpine routes that require lots of nailing.

 

I would encourage anyone considering running Cold Thistle picks in BD tools to ask Colin Haley his experience with that set up and what he is climbing on now.

 

Also for some reason I don't understand I've noticed gloves that use OutDry for insulation (Mountain Hardware) tend to ice up/freeze way faster than other brands that don't use OutDry. I've tried a few different models from Mountain Hardware over the past few years and unfortunately always had the same result which sucks because Mtn Hardware fits my hands well.

 

 

 

 

 

[DPS]

DPS: Black Diamond makes a larger adze and a full size hammer one can use on the Cobra or Viper but you have to purchase them separately and it makes the tool overall heavier. I have a few partners that will use the larger hammer for alpine routes that require lots of nailing.

 

Hi John,

 

I am aware that one can buy a larger hammer and adze, however, that adds $$$$$ to what is already the most expensive tool in its category, does not solve what I consider to be a poor adze design, nor does it address the pick issue.

 

If a larger hammer and shovel shaped adze were an option at the time of the sale (i.e. not an additional expense) I would put up with the inferior picks for what is the most naturally swinging tools I've found.

[Woodcutter]

Wrap the upper shafts in carbon, the usual way you lay up carbon fiber, with epoxy, it's all pretty easy

You could have an additional thin layer of foam underneath the carbon if you think you'll need more insulation.

If you put down a base layer of tape to protect the original shaft, you could cut the whole carbon bit off every season when it's all banged up. Should be light & tough & insulated & look fairly OK

 

I'll do it for you if you're ever heading through Seattle with the tools. Sounds pretty easy.

Jake

 

 

[Coldfinger]

Howdy Keenwesh, hope you are well!!

 

As for the 2228, I have found one can really stretch it just shy of tearing and a much thinner and tighter wrap is applied; seems lighter to me than a more relaxed application tension.

 

Almost forgot: carefully wrap the shafts so as to minimize overlap between turns and that will also save weight

 

 

Edited October 23, 2014 by Coldfinger

[sdizzle25]

Whoaaa..since i dont know colin haley, can i asked what happened? I assume something broke, which would imply it might be a slight miracle nothing bad happened? (look at all those assumptions..)