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#1090522 - 11/28/12 07:27 PM Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood
Loomis Offline
n00b

Registered: 06/03/11
Posts: 28
TRs: 2 Photos: 2
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Here we go again...
http://www.kgw.com/news/Search-on-for-climber-lost-in-whiteout-on-Mt-Hood-181284661.html

I am amazed how time and time again climbers go out on Mt Hood's south route knowing full well what the weather is going to do (or can do) without being prepared to climb down in a whiteout. A simple magnetic compass is all that is needed to get down. A GPS is awesome too. Having both is ideal. There is no excuse to get lost on the south route unless you are hurt. I hope this gentleman makes it and learns a lesson in navigation during poor weather.
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#1090541 - 11/28/12 10:44 PM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: Loomis]
ryland_moore Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 1685
TRs: 5 Photos: 45
Loc: Hood River, Oregon
Ummm, He has GPS and posted coordinates on Facebook asking friends where he was!
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#1090542 - 11/28/12 11:05 PM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: Loomis]
B Deleted_Beck Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/03/11
Posts: 790
TRs: 8 Photos: 175
What's he going to say to all those guys who ripped on him for taking a weeks worth of food, extra layers, down bag and bivy gear for a day hike up the Old Chute?

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#1090544 - 11/28/12 11:24 PM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: B Deleted_Beck]
KirkW Offline
addicted to cc.com

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 496
TRs: 4 Photos: 23
Loc: Corvallis, OR
Originally Posted By: Ben B.
What's he going to say to all those guys who ripped on him for taking a weeks worth of food, extra layers, down bag and bivy gear for a day hike up the Old Chute?


He'll probably go on and on about how all that shit "saved his life". Of course, I'd wager that right about now he'd trade all of it for the ability to read a damned compass.
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#1090546 - 11/28/12 11:57 PM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: Loomis]
wfinley Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/27/04
Posts: 1203
TRs: 9 Photos: 12
Loc: anchortown
Anyone who says "all you need is a compass" should try spending a night in a lenticular.

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#1090547 - 11/29/12 12:09 AM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: wfinley]
KirkW Offline
addicted to cc.com

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 496
TRs: 4 Photos: 23
Loc: Corvallis, OR
Originally Posted By: wfinley
Anyone who says "all you need is a compass" should try spending a night in a lenticular.


Not sure WTF that means but I've never had to spend an unplanned night in a lenticular. Might have something to do with me knowing how to read a compass.

Hope rescuers get him down.
_________________________
it's about time someone stepped up and got those bullshit 3rd world money wasting schools shut down

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#1090548 - 11/29/12 12:39 AM Re: Climber FOUND on Mt Hood [Re: Loomis]
Water Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 1206
TRs: 7 Photos: 172
Loc: pdx
the tline cam (http://www.fsvisimages.com/images/photos-large/moho2_large.jpg) has been mostly clear esp with the full moon that gives a lot of extra light-but jeff has a cloudcap as it sounds hood does, but the Wx seems relatively benign compared to so many other times when rescues are initiated in the 'winter' months. a few diff long distance hiker friends of mine thru'd the PCT this summer and appear to be friends with this fellow. as of 23:56 they (the friends) are reporting SAR has reached him and are warming him up, EMT not requested on the mountain, but maybe at tline (eta 2am)
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#1090550 - 11/29/12 04:18 AM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: Loomis]
LostCamKenny Offline
veteran

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1440
TRs: 6 Photos: 222
Loc: Rancho Relaxo
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#1090551 - 11/29/12 06:03 AM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: KirkW]
Loomis Offline
n00b

Registered: 06/03/11
Posts: 28
TRs: 2 Photos: 2
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: KirkW
Originally Posted By: wfinley
Anyone who says "all you need is a compass" should try spending a night in a lenticular.


Not sure WTF that means but I've never had to spend an unplanned night in a lenticular. Might have something to do with me knowing how to read a compass.

Hope rescuers get him down.


Same here. Knowing how to use navigational aids is what makes them valuable. I have climbed down Hood in whiteout conditions with the help of a compass.

In any case I am glad he is safe.
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#1090552 - 11/29/12 06:05 AM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: Loomis]
B Deleted_Beck Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/03/11
Posts: 790
TRs: 8 Photos: 175
Oh shit... I sort of know this dude. He's a member here, too.

Glad he's OK.

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#1090575 - 11/29/12 11:32 AM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: Loomis]
wfinley Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/27/04
Posts: 1203
TRs: 9 Photos: 12
Loc: anchortown
Originally Posted By: Loomis
Originally Posted By: KirkW
Not sure WTF that means but I've never had to spend an unplanned night in a lenticular. Might have something to do with me knowing how to read a compass.
Same here. Knowing how to use navigational aids is what makes them valuable. I have climbed down Hood in whiteout conditions with the help of a compass.



Reading a compass or gps in foul weather is possible but not without risk. Especially in terrain where veering slightly offroute could prove fatal. So when someone gets caught out in a storm ease up on the "if only he could read a compass" BS.

As for never going out except in good weather... maybe you can do that in Portland but you can't do that anywhere north of you.

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#1090589 - 11/29/12 12:26 PM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: Loomis]
rob Offline
sprayer

Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 8669
TRs: 17 Photos: 88
Loc: Seattle
Originally Posted By: Loomis
Here we go again...
http://www.kgw.com/news/Search-on-for-climber-lost-in-whiteout-on-Mt-Hood-181284661.html

I am amazed how time and time again climbers go out on Mt Hood's south route knowing full well what the weather is going to do (or can do) without being prepared to climb down in a whiteout. A simple magnetic compass is all that is needed to get down. A GPS is awesome too. Having both is ideal. There is no excuse to get lost on the south route unless you are hurt. I hope this gentleman makes it and learns a lesson in navigation during poor weather.


I love the "here we go again" comment made by the guy who started the thread.


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#1090590 - 11/29/12 12:27 PM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: wfinley]
LostCamKenny Offline
veteran

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 1440
TRs: 6 Photos: 222
Loc: Rancho Relaxo
Originally Posted By: wfinley
Originally Posted By: Loomis
Originally Posted By: KirkW
Not sure WTF that means but I've never had to spend an unplanned night in a lenticular. Might have something to do with me knowing how to read a compass.
Same here. Knowing how to use navigational aids is what makes them valuable. I have climbed down Hood in whiteout conditions with the help of a compass.



Reading a compass or gps in foul weather is possible but not without risk. Especially in terrain where veering slightly offroute could prove fatal. So when someone gets caught out in a storm ease up on the "if only he could read a compass" BS.

+1 tup

Well said finley.

What makes you other guys so sure that this guy can't read a compass, anyway? Check out the guy's Facebook pictures and see some of the places he's been (not just to climb). Seems unlikely that an individual with as much outdoor experience as he has can't read a compass... Maybe it was the one piece of gear that he honestly forgot to bring and forgetting it taught him a very valuable lesson - and nearly could have taught him a final lesson. He was lucky, yes, but none of that is indicitive of him not having the ability to read a compass. Lighten up, guys... He's gonna get enough flak as it is for this. We were all likely once at his level - some here on cc still are - so let his experience be an example to everyone.

Just sayin, y'all wave
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#1090606 - 11/29/12 02:48 PM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: LostCamKenny]
JBC Online   content
member

Registered: 04/28/05
Posts: 120
TRs: 2 Photos: 27
Loc: Portland, OR
So how many of you smart folks have actually navigated a whiteout with simply a compass? How many times solo? It's not as easy as you might think. I have never done it solo (thank God) but have done it twice, hard work!
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#1090607 - 11/29/12 02:53 PM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: JBC]
ivan Offline
Sick Spray Bird

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 15583
TRs: 111 Photos: 1636
Loc: Oceania
Originally Posted By: JBC
So how many of you smart folks have actually navigated a whiteout with simply a compass? How many times solo? It's not as easy as you might think. I have never done it solo (thank God) but have done it twice, hard work!

i've found just an altimeter is all i need for descending the southside inside the ping-pong ball, and plenty okay on the cooper spur too - having only a compass would no doubt confuse the shit out of me smile
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#1090615 - 11/29/12 03:51 PM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: Loomis]
Loomis Offline
n00b

Registered: 06/03/11
Posts: 28
TRs: 2 Photos: 2
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: wfinley
Reading a compass or gps in foul weather is possible but not without risk. Especially in terrain where veering slightly offroute could prove fatal. So when someone gets caught out in a storm ease up on the "if only he could read a compass" BS.

As for never going out except in good weather... maybe you can do that in Portland but you can't do that anywhere north of you.


Success in navigating during poor weather (or any time) has to do with ones general knowledge and familiarity with an area. In this particular case it is fairly common knowledge that when heading down from the hogsback if you follow due South on a magnetic compass you will get back down to Timberline. I have personally done this solo in a total whiteout (I could barely see my feet). When I climb in foul weather, I prepare for it. Relying on a single navigational aid is never smart either. Personally I carry a GPS with detailed mapping software and plotted route, spare battery for GPS, magnetic compass, and altimeter with digital compass. I never want to get lost and therefore I prepare accordingly.

I go out in poor weather all the time. We don't really have a choice in the Pacific Northwest. That just makes being prepared all the more important.

Originally Posted By: rob
I love the "here we go again" comment made by the guy who started the thread.


My initial comment was made out of frustration. I get tired of people getting lost when a little more preparation would have likely made the outcome much different. It's not rocket science, just common sense. The same day I went up to the hogsback for the first time (total whiteout on decent) on Hood there was a guy that became lost and had to be rescued. The culprit was ill preparedness. It gives climbing a bad rep. The general public often incorrectly thinks it costs a small fortune for the rescue and resent climbers as a result.

Originally Posted By: LostCamKenny
What makes you other guys so sure that this guy can't read a compass, anyway? Check out the guy's Facebook pictures and see some of the places he's been (not just to climb). Seems unlikely that an individual with as much outdoor experience as he has can't read a compass... Maybe it was the one piece of gear that he honestly forgot to bring and forgetting it taught him a very valuable lesson - and nearly could have taught him a final lesson. He was lucky, yes, but none of that is indicitive of him not having the ability to read a compass. Lighten up, guys... He's gonna get enough flak as it is for this. We were all likely once at his level - some here on cc still are - so let his experience be an example to everyone.


As sad as it is, it is very common for experienced outdoors people to not know how to really use a compass. But in this case who knows. It really doesn't matter as long as you have some type of navigation aid that you do know how to use. I personally rely on a GPS and only use a compass as a fallback. A big lesson here, is always have a backup. This is Oregon in winter. Chances are the weather will be shitty. If you go out, have a plan to get back.

Originally Posted By: JBC
So how many of you smart folks have actually navigated a whiteout with simply a compass? How many times solo? It's not as easy as you might think. I have never done it solo (thank God) but have done it twice, hard work!


Plenty of climbers do this. I have done it solo. I prefer a GPS. There are also plenty of much better climbers than me that are familiar enough with an area they are able to navigate whiteout conditions without the aid of a compass or GPS, but I am sure they carry one, or the other, or both.
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#1090624 - 11/29/12 05:48 PM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: JBC]
mountainsandsound Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 263
TRs: 2 Photos: 10
Loc: hunkered down
Originally Posted By: JBC
So how many of you smart folks have actually navigated a whiteout with simply a compass? How many times solo? It's not as easy as you might think. I have never done it solo (thank God) but have done it twice, hard work!


I agree that it is hard, even if you have the know how. I've never been on Hood so I don't know what the margin for error would be as far as finding the exit from the summit, but following a straight line when you can't see anything in front of you and can't pick out intermediate points of reference (i.e. following a bearing in a whiteout) is tough.
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#1090626 - 11/29/12 06:01 PM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: Loomis]
wfinley Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/27/04
Posts: 1203
TRs: 9 Photos: 12
Loc: anchortown
Textbook example of GPS and compass yet still screwing up.


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#1090627 - 11/29/12 06:12 PM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: Loomis]
Loomiss Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 4
TRs: 0 Photos: 0
Loomis, you clearly speak from experience and great wisdom. What have you: 6, 9, 20 years of experience climbing the peaks? And now that you have established a platform from which to extol your alpinist virtues upon the rest of us, please do tell. What ARE the rules and methods of navigation by which the rest of us must abide in order to meet your base level of standards and instincts? How have you also managed to maintain contact with this young man who hunkered down overnight in 40 mph winds in sub-freezing temps? For as you speak, it appears you have direct knowledge of this climber's experience, gear list, mindset, and objectives. Were you there on the mountain by his side? Have you ever watched your compass freeze over and become virtually unreadable in pitch black sub-freezing conditions as your fingers numbed and panic set in like concrete drying on a hot summer day knowing that any move could be the last so you dig a cave, eat some power bars, and remind yourself that tomorrow will be a better day? Can you even imagine the reasons a climber might hunker down despite having compass, GPS, and whatever extra batteries you think will save your life in hand? Is that your experience, sir? But let me remind you that while you write this diatribe drivel about a far superior climber you sit in a warm room filing digital bullshit based on your obviously long-term experience as a climber. Let me guess, you've summited a few peaks in the northwest and now you're what? What you are is the fucking man! I can't wait to read the next Loomis post. Perhaps I can read it on your gear review website . . . more drivel. What's sad about this entire situation is that an amateur can recline in his seat and judge experienced climbers with impunity. You are the fucking man! Bravo!


Edited by Loomiss (11/29/12 06:20 PM)

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#1090628 - 11/29/12 06:15 PM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: wfinley]
Loomis Offline
n00b

Registered: 06/03/11
Posts: 28
TRs: 2 Photos: 2
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: wfinley
Textbook example of GPS and compass yet still screwing up.


Good point, but that's like comparing apples to oranges. We are talking South side Mt Hood here and 2012.

On unfamiliar terrain, I'd be less likely to proceed much further if conditions rapidly deteriorated without signs of improvement. But I would also be relying on a modern day GPS with detailed topo maps and a plot of my route that I could follow back if needed.
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#1090630 - 11/29/12 06:23 PM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: Loomiss]
Loomis Offline
n00b

Registered: 06/03/11
Posts: 28
TRs: 2 Photos: 2
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: Loomiss
Loomis, you clearly speak from experience and great wisdom. What have you: 6, 9, 20 years of experience climbing the peaks? And now that you have established a platform from which to extol your alpinist virtues upon the rest of us, please do tell. What ARE the rules and methods of navigation by which the rest of us must abide in order to meet your base level of standards and instincts? How have you also managed to maintain contact with this young man who hunkered down overnight in 40 mph winds in sub-freezing temps? For as you speak, it appears you have direct knowledge of this climber's experience, gear list, mindset, and objectives. Were you there on the mountain by his side? Have you ever watched your compass freeze over and become virtually unreadable in pitch black sub-freezing conditions as your fingers numbed and panic set in like concrete drying on a hot summer day knowing that any move could be the last so you dig a cave, eat some power bars, and remind yourself that tomorrow will be a better day? Is that your experience, sir? But let me remind you that while you write this diatribe drivel about a superior climber you sit in a warm room filing digital bullshit based on your obviously long-term experience as a climber. Let me guess, you've summited a few peaks in the northwest and now you're what? What you are is the fucking man!


I like this reply. This guy set up a new CC alias just to post this.

I don't remember saying I was a superior climber, but I eluded to being a better navigator. You are correct that I do not know all the details of this incident, but if you do, please tell. We are talking about South side Mt Hood here. Besides an injury I see no reason one should get lost to the point of needing rescue on this route. Delayed sure, but lost, no.
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#1090631 - 11/29/12 06:24 PM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: Loomis]
Loomiss Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 4
TRs: 0 Photos: 0
What makes you think I'm a guy?

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#1090632 - 11/29/12 06:26 PM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: Loomiss]
Loomis Offline
n00b

Registered: 06/03/11
Posts: 28
TRs: 2 Photos: 2
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: Loomiss
What makes you think I'm a guy?


I was using the term generically. My apologies.
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#1090633 - 11/29/12 06:28 PM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: Loomis]
ivan Offline
Sick Spray Bird

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 15583
TRs: 111 Photos: 1636
Loc: Oceania
it's been a long time since we had a thoroughly hood-tarded conversation grin
_________________________
Ignorance is Strength
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery

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#1090636 - 11/29/12 06:32 PM Re: Climber Lost in Whiteout on Mt Hood [Re: Loomis]
Loomiss Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 4
TRs: 0 Photos: 0
Please do tell us, Loomis, how long have you been climbing? How long does one have to climb to ascertain the knowledge which you so kindly provide us?

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